View Full Version : Gray Scale/Value Finder with an Image

15-12-06, 06:25
First I opened an image in ELEMENTS and resized it to 9 X 6 at 66%
Next I opened an image of the 10 TONE VALUE FINDER and resized to the same size as the image.

Next I clicked on the blue bar of the image and then opened up the QUICK FIX Box in the menus
I then did some minor work with the tools in the that. During this process I clicked on the blue bar of the VALUE FINDER. By doing that, I was able to PIGGY BACK my VALUE FINDER over any value or color in the image to any tone in the VALUE FINDER.

Doing this I was able to match the brightness of the colour in the image to the brightness of the tone on the VALUE FINDER. By using the ROTATE 180 DEGREE TOOL, I was able to bring any tone on the VALUE FINDER over any colour or tone in the image and match them very accuratly.

The image with this note was done using the tone and colour matching. Even with the Sister's habit, I was able to give the dark side a VALLUE 2 and the BRIGHTER SIDE VALUE 3. The tree leaves were around VALUE 5 in the shade and VALUE 6 in the sun.

The GRAY SCALE/VALUE FINDER was scanned into the P C

15-12-06, 12:27
Thanks for this Norm,

But just one thing is puzzling me, when do I need to do this and what benefits does it give me? I'm afraid I don't quite understand.

15-12-06, 12:37

I am somewhat confussed and lost here. Are you saying that the shot with the nun was taken to include a grey scale and you are using that to get a reference for colour balance and brightness values ? If not I don't see the point of what you are doing.

15-12-06, 13:01
My idea is - to try to follow the ideas layed out by ANSEL ADAMS in his ZONE SYSTEM.

He used sheet film and metered his exposure to put different tones in the scene to different ZONES on his ZONE SYSTEM. Then he would develop his film accordingly to bring out his tones in his film as accurately as he could. And he did his prints the same way.

As digitals do one frame at a time - llike sheet film, I am trying to work up my images - one image at a time. I am using the GRAY SCALE as a guide as I work in ELEMENTS. I try to match colours and tones in my image to the approximate tones on the GRAY SCALE like ADAMS did in his ZONE SYSTEM.

This system is not for everyone, but I just thought I would share the idea for anyone who would like to give it a go.

For me, I find it helps me keep my images on my P C closer in accuracy than some ideas I have tried.

I hope helps clarify the question.

Norm D

15-12-06, 15:52
A couple of references to Adams zone system.



I am still puzzled on how this relates to what you are doing.

Adams was working in monochrome. His system was to ensure correct exposure and development of film and print to match the tonal range of the scene to the dynamic range of the media.

In your case how do you know that part of the scene relates to grey level 3 if you have no reference to work from.

Using a device such as the Lastolite XpoBlance to get a reference would be more useful.

Don Hoey
15-12-06, 22:22

I do not have ELEMENTS but have other editing progs.

I understand the zone system from my film days but I am not sure how this relates to digital.

B&W film expose for shadows and develop for highlights. Digital expose for highlights and post process for the shadows.
With B&W film I used a spotmeter and could use that to determine the various zones in a scene and therefore exposure. Now I am on digital I have 3D colour matrix metering, all very fancy but one still needs to chimp in high contrast scenes to ensure the histogram falls at the right point. Link to cambridgeincolour - histograms. http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/histograms1.htm

As the image you posted in the thread starter is so small, I am unable to overlay a grey scale in order to try and follow your explanation of what you are doing and why. It really needs to be at least 800 wide to allow one to really see the finer tones. A before and after would be even more helpful in understanding.


19-12-06, 03:23
Hello Don

We have just been through 56 hours of lost power due to brutal winds that blew through the region in the early hours of last Friday. From 0400 on Friday to 1000 on Sunday we were living in an igloo - it was so cold.

Earlier today, I was in the photofinisher's and below is what I learned.

While in our Photofinisher's today (to say Merry Christmas), I spoke to the owner about my latest settings on my still cam.

These are basically what I came up with myself. He was most pleased about this. He also said I will keep most all the pixels in the image this way. He is a master at bringing out the best in an image, so I know his info is correct.

Following is what he tells and works with pro's to use with digi's.
Program Mode
EV - O or possibly +0.3 or - (minus) 0.3 (No Further - up or down)

He also says that it is far better to do no work on the P C - except re-sizing - as his computer programs for his machines are not the same as ours. As such it is hard for him to match our work - as good as it may be - to his machines to get a good match of tones and colours by playing around on here.

I will be following his suggestions posted here to see how they match my gray scale.

I will post what I learn with him on these settings in the future.

Norm D

20-01-07, 16:49
In your case how do you know that part of the scene relates to grey level 3 if you have no reference to work from.
Using a device such as the Lastolite XpoBlance to get a reference would be more useful.

I have heard that you can use a Pringles lid to set whitebalance?
Anyone know how effective this is?

21-01-07, 22:37
I have heard that you can use a Pringles lid to set whitebalance?
Anyone know how effective this is?

thanks,Waffle,this has brought us back to reality:confused: :D

22-01-07, 00:04
Having just looked at a pringles lid I would not of thought they were frosted enough.

22-01-07, 00:15
I'm not sure if they've changed the material across the whole range or just on some flavours/markets. Certainly they used to be more opaque than the last few I've seen.

23-01-07, 22:37
The simple basis is to use the normal tone scale 0-255. This relates to 8 stops in intensity.
0/2/4/8/16/32/64/128/256. You can see this on the Levels slider in PS and other software.
The best way to set white balance is auto and use RAW.