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Glenvic
26-11-10, 11:30
Hello everyone - Do any of you have any experience or knowledge of "cross processing". It is a method I may be trying for my next City and Guilds folio and want to find out as much as possible. My first step will be the buy a colour film for my camera!! Should it be a colour reversal or negative film? Help.

miketoll
26-11-10, 12:34
Scratching the old grey cells here, never done cross processing myself. Basically you can process form a colour negative with most types of of colour slide film by doing a regular colour negative processing. Equally you can get a colour slide of sorts from a colour negative if you develop it with chemicals designed for colour slide film. If you print from a cross processed negative there will be a strong colour shift, with Ektachrome a strong shift to yellow, but you can use filtration to more or less correct the colour shift and then you will get a marked increase in contrast losing detail, a hard result with simplified colour. All rather hit and miss I seem to remember with the exact result depending on the developing/film combination. Hope that helps, have fun!

Glenvic
26-11-10, 14:27
Thanks Mike - I m sure that they are not that grey! Going to go down the road of buying a 100 negative film and shooting at 200. Not sure who I am going to use to process it but I can but try. Interesting stuff. I'd love to hear from anyone else who may have knowledge of this technique.

miketoll
26-11-10, 14:51
A little puzzled by your reference to buying 100 ISO negative film and processing at 200 as that is push processing which is a different thing altogether. If you are going to do cross processing then you will have to use a lab where you can talk to somebody to explain what you want or your film will be rejected or processed in the 'correct' chemicals and you will just get normal results. Small local (pro?) lab if such things still exist.
PS My brain cells should be grey (apart from the white matter), I just note you do not query the 'old' bit! :D

Glenvic
26-11-10, 15:37
A little puzzled by your reference to buying 100 ISO negative film and processing at 200 as that is push processing which is a different thing altogether. If you are going to do cross processing then you will have to use a lab where you can talk to somebody to explain what you want or your film will be rejected or processed in the 'correct' chemicals and you will just get normal results. Small local (pro?) lab if such things still exist.
PS My brain cells should be grey (apart from the white matter), I just note you do not query the 'old' bit! :D

Definitely mustn't query the "old" bit!!! What I intend to do is use a 100 ISO film but SHOOT the images with the camera set for a 200 film - this should sort out the exposure which I believe is needed if cross processing is to be done. Then I need to find a lab who will know what I want done - rather than someone who hasn't got a clue. There is a good lab in Chelmsford (or so I am told) so will try them in the first instance.

Tangata
26-11-10, 16:42
I don't know if this helps, but Phototools 2.5 is a free download that works with Photoshop CS4. Among other things it includes four effects based on cross processing. This might allow you to explore what is possible before committing yourself to using expensive film.

Glenvic
26-11-10, 19:00
Thanks for your help. I have done a bit of research this afternoon and feel that I have to have a go with film! Nothing like an old fool eh! Although I'll download that file and have a play.

miketoll
26-11-10, 20:30
Still puzzled by the 100 ISO film exposed as 200 ISO. All this does is under expose by a stop then compensate by altering the development which increases grain and alters contrast a bit. It was primarily used to gain speed that was otherwise not available or increase grain for artistic reasons. I have never seen any reference to doing this for cross processing so I would be interested to hear more.

Don Hoey
26-11-10, 20:56
I have never done cross processing so I will follow this thread with interest. In fact as its warmer in the house than the workshop I think I'll spend some time tomorrow on a net search to see if that turns out any usefull info.

E6 (transparency) processed in C41 (colour neg) I have heard of but not the other way round. And therein may lay a processing problem if you go the C41 process in E6 route. To avoid overcontamination of a processors chemicals they need to be doing a lot of E6 to allow for processing a single C41. As Most film processors are doing more in colour neg then it would be easier to slot in one E6 film without screwing up the chemicals.

Also if its C41 being processed in E6 I would expect a longer than standard development time rather than exposing the film for push process.

There you go ....... committed myself to get involved now :D :D :D

Don

Glenvic
26-11-10, 23:15
As far as I can discover cross processing tends to appear to over exposure the film about one stop so to compensate for that you need to double the ISO. This then makes the camera "think" that you are using a faster film. It is worth a punt just to try something different - not sure that my poor long suffering husband thinks the same though. As soon as I get any results I will try to up load them - will need to get then scanned though... Just one more thing to overcome. I would still like to hear from anyone who can add to this thread

miketoll
26-11-10, 23:34
Thanks for the info Glenvic. I did a bit of Googling too and found the same advice on the web sites I visited, better to under expose by one stop. Colours seem to vary considerably depending on the film used (some not even giving a shift at all but merely increase saturation and contrast) with old out of date film giving the strongest results. Have you got a flat bed scanner? That would probably be good enough for an experiment. Keeps the cost down for your Hubby. Tell him that photography is far cheaper than riding, I should know as my wife is into riding and owns and pays for one horse and shares another. Says I have too many cameras too!

Glenvic
27-11-10, 10:41
I've ordered some out of date 100 film on Ebay .... on my way. I just need to find a decent lab who is prepared to aprocess the film. From what I can see they appear to be reluctant to do so because of "cross contamination" of their fluids. Otherwise I'll have to try it myself!!!!! Unfortunately I do not own a scanner - threw it away ages ago and now regret it. As to cheaper than riding .... there is a problem .. I also ride a Harley so there is nothing cheap about that but as he has one too he cannot bring that up in any argument.

Don Hoey
27-11-10, 12:46
Easier to post any interesting links I find as I go along.

I am starting todays info search with C41 colour neg cross processed in E6 as you seem to be fairly set on that route.
There is quite a bit on this Flikr link
http://www.flickr.com/groups/crossprocessing/discuss/81487/

Don

Don Hoey
27-11-10, 13:31
I've ordered some out of date 100 film on Ebay .... on my way. I just need to find a decent lab who is prepared to aprocess the film. From what I can see they appear to be reluctant to do so because of "cross contamination" of their fluids. Otherwise I'll have to try it myself!!!!!

Just in case it does become a 'process your own film' job, then I have just fallen over this link to home developing E6. Which you will need to do if you use colour negative film.
http://www.lightcatchers.org/gcarlson/e6processing/E6processing.htm

Don

Don Hoey
27-11-10, 14:11
Here you go for someone that does cross processing.

Peak Imaging.

Film speed changes and cross processing add 1:10 per film to the standard rate.

http://www.peak-imaging.com/htmls/film_processing.htm

Don

Glenvic
27-11-10, 20:47
Thanks Don, I think that having read a bit more this afternoon I am inclined to develop it myself and then perhaps get a lab to print without any colour correction. I'm going to follow the links that you have found and see where it takes me.

Glenvic
27-11-10, 20:49
Thanks Don, I think that having read a bit more this afternoon I am inclined to develop it myself and then perhaps get a lab to print without any colour correction. I'm going to follow the links that you have found and see where it takes me.

But having said that it is relatively cheap to get it done by that Lab.

Don Hoey
28-11-10, 18:59
I'm interested to see the results when you get round to it. I agree that its probably worth getting it processed unless you really enjoy film developing.

Maybe you might find some cheap transparency film as the results should be quite different. Transparency would of course allow you to photograph the result on a light box in lieu of scanning. Neg would be harder to do this way as you have the film base tint to deal with.

Don

yelvertoft
29-11-10, 09:06
Glennis,

There used to be a really good lab on the Dukes Park industrial estate, but I don't know if they are still going.
Chelmsford Colour Laboratories
18 Grafton Place, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 6TG

p: 01245451425 f: 01245451245




For this kind of work you really do need to talk to a lab first and find out what they can/can't do and see what recommendations they have.

You can get some good photoshop actions that simulate cross processing that may give you a clue what sort of effect you're going to end up with.

Here's the one I've used in the past
http://www.thelightsrightstudio.com/TLRCrossProcessing.htm
never done it for real in a darkroom.

Glenvic
30-11-10, 19:48
Thanks Duncan. I'll make some enquiries. Waiting for the films to arrive and then I'm going to do some test shots. But in the meantime I'll check out the site. Missed you last month in Danbury -we were looking forward to meeting Debs.

andy153
30-11-10, 23:12
Stretching my old grey cells I recall that Cross processing is the procedure of deliberately processing photographic film in a chemical solution intended for a different type of film. Cross processing usually involves one of the two following methods:
Processing positive color reversal (slide) film in C-41 chemicals, resulting in a negative image on a colorless base
Processing negative color print film in E-6 chemicals, resulting in a positive image but with the orange base of a normally processed color negative.
There are digital filters available to replicate this, but they do not have the unpredictability of the film process where time and chemical mix will vary the effect. I think I last tried this about 35 to 40 years ago..... Results are unpredictable as freshness of chemicals, temperature, time all have different effects especially when reacting with a film they are not intended for. Glennis, if I were you I try to do it myself, much more fun and satisfaction..... :)

yelvertoft
01-12-10, 08:49
Thanks Duncan. I'll make some enquiries. Waiting for the films to arrive and then I'm going to do some test shots. But in the meantime I'll check out the site. Missed you last month in Danbury -we were looking forward to meeting Debs.

We should be around for the December meeting, but I can't say I've had too much inspiration with the theme. [insert head-scratching emoticon here]

Glenvic
04-12-10, 22:32
The films arrived today - now I have to take the plunge! It's a bit cold though to go out to the garage to shoot the Harley! .... And I haven't yet spoken to the film lab..... Do you sometimes think that you have made a mistake?

miketoll
05-12-10, 22:23
Nothing for it now - go for it! Bet you enjoy it. :)

yelvertoft
06-12-10, 09:10
The films arrived today - now I have to take the plunge! It's a bit cold though to go out to the garage to shoot the Harley! .... And I haven't yet spoken to the film lab..... Do you sometimes think that you have made a mistake?

Oh Glennis! No, you haven't made a mistake. What's the worse that can happen? You take some pictures, even if, for whatever reason they don't come out as you want them to, you will have learned from the experience. Isn't that the whole point of you doing the course and being told about cross processing?

Glenvic
06-12-10, 14:52
Thanks for your support everyone. I've today managed to convince the local Saab dealer to let me use their showroom as a studio - I'll use the cars in the showroom for my test shots and when the weather improves (providing I get the results I want) will take the Harley there for my portfolio images.

Glenvic
06-12-10, 14:54
We should be around for the December meeting, but I can't say I've had too much inspiration with the theme. [insert head-scratching emoticon here]

I must admit that I haven't even taken one shot the for December meet. Got a couple of ideas but not yet got the inclination to go and take them further!