the best CSC...?
 

I know a lot of members are using DSLRs but wondered how many are now using compact system cameras either instead or alongside? CSCs have come a long way very quickly both in terms of auto focus performance and image quality and are becoming a serious competitor to entry level DSLRs. So who uses one, and is it your main camera out a lighter eight option for discreet photography? What makes and models are people using? What are the pros and cons of your chosen camera or CSCs in general? Is there a single best camera in this area?

Great question Peter & I'll be interested in the feedback on for when I don't want to carry a bag of lenses ;)

I will be very interested too as I am considering one to carry as a light weight option without losing much IQ.

I'll open the batting then by declaring ownership of an Olympus OM-D E-M5 together with 3 Olympus and 1 Panasonic lenses.

First point - CSC sort of implies a camera for a compact system, though it could just be the camera that's small. A number of mirrorless cameras are indeed small and light but still need larger lenses to cover their respective sensor sizes.

Returning to my Canon 40D after using the E-M5 for even a relatively short time comes as quite a shock to the hand! The Oly body is much thinner. I wouldn't want it to be any smaller - mainly to prevent the controls such as the function buttons from being too 'cramped.' The recently-introduced E-M1 seems to have a better-designed layout in this respect, but it's also getting a bit larger and heavier (as is the new 12-40mm lens to go with it) and Olympus need to watch this if they're to avoid going down the route of the original 4/3rds sytem, where the smaller size of the sensor didn't produce dramatically smaller cameras and lenses.

I'm not getting any younger and my main reason for going down the M4/3rds route is to cut down on the size and weight of my equipment when going on holidays, etc. Also, my favourite (but long-obsolete) Sigma 400mm Apo/Macro lens as developed a fault, so it was probably time to update anyway. The Panasonic lens that I have - the 100-300mm zoom - focuses quite close and is not a million miles behind the Sigma in getting decent-sized images of butterflies, etc, but it's not really up to it overall. I'm having to work harder and am getting fewer 'keepers,' though I need to give myself longer to thoroughly get used to it. It's certainly not a bad lens and it will do until someone brings out a longer prime lens that's matched to the system.

Two of my Olympus lenses - the 12-50mm kit lens and the 60mm macro are weather-sealed and are thus internal-focus models and are, therefore, not that compact for transportation like some of the 'collapsible' models (such as the 9-18mm), but they're very lightweight.

My other lens is the 45mm F1.8 which is very small and light. It's also got a reputation for being much better than its size and price might suggest (mine came free!) and I really like the images from this lens. It's one that you'd be happy to have on your camera all day long, assuming that the 90mm-equivalent focal length isn't too 'tight' for your purposes.

Without going into 'pixel-peeping' mode, I have no problems regarding image quality in general (notwithstanding my earlier comments regarding the Panasonic v Sigma lenses at the macro end). Of course, my 40D is an older model now and there are many newer DSLRs around that provide stiffer competition, but even so the benefits of reduced size and especially weight can't be ignored - the Olympus body plus all four lenses weigh only a few grammes more than my Sigma lens alone!

I guess I would add my thoughts as I started it... much as I love using a CSC for me it replaces a compact rather than a DSLR. I have been through a number of models in my quest to find the perfect take everywhere camera (and I don't think one exists yet). I started with Panasonics and was very impressed with them, had the G1 which was a great little camera but was slow and not all that small. Then added a GF1 with the 20mm f1.7 lens, this was a superb set up which I used a lot on days out with the family. Then chopped in my G1 for a G3 which was a vast improvement, much faster AF, better noise handling and better screen/EVF. I coupled it with the Panasonic 100-300 in the hope that it could compete with the 100-400 on a Canon body. In good light the Panasonic did really well and could deliver superb results and all in a package that weighed in at less than a third of the Canon set up. However when the light dropped so did the AF performance of the Panasonic, on occassions it would just hunt and hunt without ever locking on where the Canon was still snapping into focus.

Decided that it wasn't going to replace my Canon so sold it to try the Nikon 1. I had heard this was great for digiscoping (taking photos through a telescope) and it was a very small package. I went for the twin lens kit and initial impressions were OK but not great. Testing it further there were numerour problems/irritations. Firstly the fact that if you dialed in any EV comp it didn't show on the screen, what is the point of shooting with an LCD if it doesn't simulate the actual results? Also the video on the camera was hopeless in most situations (only any good in broad daylight) and I like being able to grab video of the kids. But the biggest issue I had was the image quality, the small senser (it is much smaller than most other CSCs) gave very digital looking results which were nowhere near what I got from a crop DSLR in quality. SO the Nikon had to go.

Went back to m43s in the shape of an Olympus EPM1 which was a shocker of the camera and ended up getting returned. I can only assume that I had a faulty camera - while Olympus claimed it was within acceptable range the retailer agreed with me that it wasn't. So I went back to a Panasonic, this time going for a GX1 with the power zoom and a GF5 with the Olympus 45 f1.8. I was much happier with this set up. The power zoom is very compact and works well for a kit lens and the 45 is simply stunning especially for the price. By this time I had realised that trying to get a CSC to shot at the long end (I love bird photography) wasn't going to work for me so was sticking to using the cameras for family days out. I should have been satisfied with this as both cameras and lenses were performing very well. But then...

I got offered a Canon EOS M at a good price and failed to resist it (I had been interested in the camera since it came out but it seemed over priced). So picked up the M with the kit lens (which is fairly bulky) and also the cheap and cheerful 22mm f2 pancake lens. Instantly loved the M, probably because the menu system is so familiar to me as a Canon user but also becaue of the results. The AF is fast and accurate (apparently it wasn't to begin with but a firmware fix cured it) and using the touch screen to select a focus point makes grabbing shots very easy. The image quality is superb as I would expect given that it shares a senser and processer with the 650D DSLR and high ISO noise is not an issue at all. Coupled with the the 22mm it is a very portable camera. I got hold of a Panasonic 20mm f1.7 lens to compare it to as this is one of the most loved lenses on m43s and was surprised to find how much better the Canon was. The AF is much swifter and the resulting images were slighty better too. I also like the fact that with the adpater I can use the M on my Canon EF lenses, it has worked well on all the ones I have tried. The AF system will even AF with set ups that a DSLR wouldn't (such as an f4 lens with a 2x), it is much better AF than the LiveView AF on any Canon that I have tried.

Along the way I have also tried a coulpe of other Olympus models - the EP1 is a classic but I find Olympus menus annoying to navigate. I have heard great things about the newest models but have not tried them myself. I also tried a Sony NEX in the early days but didn't get on with it.

In my opinion I haven't found a CSC that can really cut it for action photography so for my uses it cannot replace a DSLR yet. However I do prefer to take a small camera out with me on casual days out and as such I found that both m43s and the EOS M work very well. I suspect that the m43s with it's wider range of native lenses should be first choice but I do have a soft sport for the EOS M. For landscapes, street photography and general days out these cameras really can deliver the results.

I've thought for a while now that the micro4/3rds system is what the original 4/3rds system should have been all along! The technology has had to catch up to make it worthwhile - the EVF was the first real stumbling block, but that has been improved quite considerably in recent models. The latest Sony 16Mp sensor that Olympus uses at the moment is also much better than the older 12Mp models.

Rather than jumping into the system too early, I'd been saving a few pounds per week ready for when the model came out that I was really interested in. I wasn't sure which one it would be but eventually the E-M5 seemed to tick most of the boxes - Olympus did say that a more 'professional' body was in the pipeline but the E-M5 seemed to be pretty well OK for my purposes.

As a keen bird photographer myself, I was aware that one of the zooms would have to do until something better came along. Again, Olympus are suggesting that something in the 250mm - 350mm range is being planned. Hopefully, it will be at the long end of that range and won't have too large an aperture as that negates one of the main advantages of the system: i.e. size and weight. At the moment, though, the system is not ideal for wildlife photography as one's main camera.

The Olympus menu system is indeed difficult to navigate around until you get used to it. This is not helped by the increasingly common practice of only supplying the detailed instruction manual on the software CD - not so bad if you have a smart phone or some sort of portable computer but even then, you can't beat a printed book that is small enough to slip into a jacket pocket to look up a feature at any time.

The E-M5 has a few function buttons that can be ascribed to frequently-used features - actually I could do with just one more (and the E-M1 does indeed have 3 more, so that should make it even better to configure it to how you want it for the majority of situations). You do have to remember which function you've ascribed to each button, of course, so it's not quite as easy as, say, Canon cameras which have buttons labelled: 'ISO' or 'AF-on' etc!

Eventually, once you've got past the stage of familiarisation and testing, you've got to go out and take the kind of shots that you would have done anyway with your regular system. Only then will you know if it does genuinely perform as well as you'd like it to. Some situations may show up weaknesses, whilst others may prove that a m4/3rds system is actually better at capturing the moment.

You can see in the viewfinder the effects of altering exposure-compensation settings before you take the shot, rather than checking after the shot is taken, which may be useful in some situations. M4/3rds lenses also tend to need less stopping-down compared to larger formats which can help with higher shutter speeds or lower ISO settings - again, it'll take time to see how one's photo sessions pan out to see what the overall impression is.

Thanks guys, really interesting. I had a little play with the Canon EOS M at the bird fair and I must admit it seems rather nice but did not really give it a long enough play to even begin to form an opinion. One of the downsides is that any long focal length Canon lenses are just as big and heavy as they always are if you see what I mean! I had a brief look at the new Panasonic GX7 too which again seemed really nice and I liked the fact that it has a viewfinder which would be much better for use with a long lens than using the screen on the back. Nicely balanced and still light with the Panasonic 100-300 on. One downside is that servo focus with tracking will not be too hot so BIFS are probably out. I guess I too am looking for the perfect lightweight small camera with no drawbacks but it is still not available. How does the micro 4/3 compare noise wise with a a Canon DSLR like the 70D or perhaps more relevently with the 100D which is a remarkably compact DSLR?

Well, there are always going to be compromises (drawbacks, if you like) with any format. It's probably all down to the type of photography one does.

If you're a landscape specialist then the m4/3rds system will probably not stand up to close scrutiny against a so-called 'full-frame' camera. Of course, 'full-frame' is based on the 35mm film size, which only a few years ago would not have been considered by many landscape specialists with their 6x7, 6x17 or even 5"x4" cameras. How many of those are now happy with a D800 or 5D Mk111 and wouldn't want to go back to lugging around one of those heavy monsters?

As I commented earlier, I bought my Olympus mainly for a lightweight holiday camera, but I'm impressed enough to consider it as my main camera - providing that they bring out that high quality long telephoto lens.

One point worth thinking about - if one has got thoroughly used to a particular system over a number of years and then one buys a smaller camera just for those occasions when one doesn't want to carry the familiar camera around, then you'll probably be disappointed with it. Not only will you not have got used to using it instinctively, but the very fact that you're only taking the 'second' camera out probably means that your intended subject isn't going to be that important, anyway. So the resulting pictures won't be amongst your favourites.

At the moment if I go out on a walk or just go somewhere then I tend to take my little Canon compact which is OK in good bright conditions but is obviously limited. Sometimes I am amazed by what it can do, other times disappointed. If I go somewhere for a specific purpose I will take my DSLR and what I hope will be the appropriate lens or lenses. What I would like is something that is much better in less than ideal conditions than a compact but does not have the weight or bulk of a DSLR when I do the more casual stuff. I tend to shoot most of my stuff at longer focal lengths so the larger sensor CSC's are probably out as their longer focal length stuff will be large. Which leaves me with micro 4/3 as a, hopefully, good compromise. Yes I realize it is all about compromise but it would certainly be better than a compact with it's tiny sensor.
I would be very interested to know in more detail what the Panasonic 100-300 is like. I know it is consumer grade rather than pro grade but that is all I know.
Guess as a pensioner I am just not as young or strong as I once was for lugging heavy stuff on long walks or up mountains just on the off chance of a good shot!

That lens is reviewed here Mike http://www.photozone.de/olympus--fou...684-pana100300

The 100-300 is an amazing lens for the money, quite how Panasonic have made such a good lens for the weight and price is amazing. I had one for about a year and was always pleased with the results. It is plenty sharp enough when shooting wide open but obviously does improve when stopped down a bit. The AF seems to be decent enough on it though this is clearly effected by the body it is used one. The best body I put it on was a G3 and I am sure it would be even better on a newer model. I used it alongside a Canon 100-400 and in good light the Panasonic compared very well. It is not quite as good as the Canon but at ~1/3rd the cost that is hardly surprising. I would say that the 100-400 is a better lens (I still have it but have sold the Panasonic) but the Panasonic is much better value.

One huge advantage of the mirrorless cameras is that you do not get issues with back/front focusing as you can on a DSLR. Not the biggest issue but it is nice to know that any camera bought on a mirrorless system should focus acurately even if not as swiftly as on a DSLR.

I got to have a play with a Sony NEX 5n with the 16mm f2.8 at the weekend and was very unimpressed. The Sony menu system is the least user friendly of any that I have tried. If you want to have any control over the camera settings you have to work hard. I was also unimpressed with the image quality, it was fine in decent day light but was poor in low light or when using the bundled flash (seemed to always fire at the same power so the subject needed to be the right distance away to get a decent result).

I've found that when the Panasonic seems to be struggling to focus on the subject wanted, if I manually focus somewhere near enough to 'give it a hint' so to speak, then it locks on quite well. It's one of those things where you have to keep trying stuff out to see how it works and eventually you get to use it instinctively - though, to be honest, I haven't had the time that I'd like to use the whole kit as much as I'd like recently.

DXO rates the Olympus 75-300mm lens as a bit better than the Panasonic 100-300mm, but it doesn't have the close-focus at the long end of the zoom range to give a more comfortable working distance for nervous butterflies, dragonflies etc. The Olympus, of course is a bit slower (F6.7) at the 300mm setting, though it's a bit lighter in weight but doesn't include a lenshood (or pouch case) in the package.

A couple of shots with the Panasonic at 300mm on my E-M5 below. The Banded Demoiselle damselfly is one I've already put in my 'Birdforum' gallery and the Iberian Marbled White butterfly is one I placed in the 'Surfbirds' insect gallery as that species hadn't been featured there before:

Mike I do not think you will see much of a drop in IQ with the latest Sony sensor used in the latest Olympus cameras.

Like you I am a pensioner and camera weight has a big influence on me and a few months ago I sold all my DSLR kit and went completely MFT.

Most days I walk the dogs around the local country park and my carry round kit is the E-M5 or E-PL5 and the 40-150mm (80-300mm) kit lens which is very light and you can carry it around all day. Hell if I pack big and take the 40-150mm f4-5.6, 14-42mm , 17mm f1.8 and 45mm f1.8 it all fits in a small bag that you would be lucky to fit a decent sized slr and standard zoom in.

Back to IQ, I cannot tell you if it is good enough for you, all I can do is post some real world images and some 100% crops. All the info is at the bottom of the images.

All images taken on my dog walks with the kit m40-150mm lens.

Thanks Paul. I am not quite ready yet (funds!) but when the time comes I think I will have to go to a supplier and actually handle several micro2/3 cameras and look at their menus etc but they look promising for what I want. Better the camera with you than the one at home because that one is too heavy!

Indeed Mike trawling through those menus can be a little bit daunting (and although there is a lot that can be customized) it is the reason why I set Olympus to use the Super Control Panel.

Just push the OK button and all the major setting that there are not buttons for come up on the LCD or in the viewfinder and you just select the one you want to change with the DPad or top wheel, makes it a lot easier for a old un like me.:)

Useful and quick.