suggestions for rule changes March onwards

I am wondering if there could be a qualification for entry, say 10 photos posted and 20 comments made to ensure that the competition is actually for active WPF members rather than, as occasionally, a professional/near professional/occasionally professional photgrapher, posting only competition entries to chalk up more wins. Personally I never vote without first looking at the photgraphers gallery to see if the entry satisfies some definition of an active member.

I am not sure if WPF actually has a definition of aims, but it has self-defined itself as being friendly and encouraging, especially to younger and less experienced photgraphers and I feel that the proposed rule change would give that group a fairer chance

[robski]

I think there is some merit in your idea Chris as we do get the odd fly poster. One good thing about not having a prize otherwise we could be flooded.

[Gidders]

Originally Posted by daedal

I am wondering if there could be a qualification for entry, say 10 photos posted and 20 comments made to ensure that the competition is actually for active WPF members ...

I'm afraid I disagree.

Firstly, if we start going down the route suggested by Chris then the question of time frame come into it - ie how many posts does one need to see over what period to continue to be considered an active member? My posting can be sporadic. Looking back I see that I've posted 7 images this month, but for a 3 month period Sep - Nov last year I only posted 2 so then I perhaps might not be considered an active member

Secondly, to me a great image is a great image is a great image

Originally Posted by daedal

I am not sure if WPF actually has a definition of aims, but it has self-defined itself as being friendly and encouraging, especially to younger and less experienced photgraphers and I feel that the proposed rule change would give that group a fairer chance

Even among the active members we have a great range of skills & experience so it is difficult to see how creating an entry qualification would give younger or less experienced members a fairer chance.

The only way I can see of doing that would be to have some sort of category system as most club competitions do - eg beginners, intermediate & advanced. That in turn implies some sort of ratings and promotions panel and separate competitions. As one of the people involved in organising our clubs internal competitions I know the amount of work involved in goin down that route.

As far as I'm aware all entires in external competitions/exhibitions are judged equally against each other and I my view is that should continue to be the case here at WPF

Originally Posted by daedal

Personally I never vote without first looking at the photgraphers gallery to see if the entry satisfies some definition of an active member.

In competitions where I've witnessed the judging, it is usual for the judge not to be aware of who the author of the image is. They have to judge each image on its own merits. This therefore raises an interesting point, if members are making judgements about a member's worthyness to receive their vote - positive or negative (eg "not considered active", or "they won last month" or "they are a friend") then I would suggest that enties in the competitions should be unattributed/anonymous until the result of the vote is known

Having said all that, now that the competition has been running over 12 months I do believe that there is merit is reviewing the rules. Maybe members should post any rule changes they would like to be considered and see which receive general support. For example in the February Vehicle thread I saw Sassan proposing increasing the number on entries permitted per member. Now that would have my support, subject to an upper limit

[Canis Vulpes]

The competition is open to ALL members new, infrequent, active, beginner and professional. There is no prize and its just for fun.

There is no bias for beginners and each photo should stand on its own merits when it comes to voting which is done by members.

Originally Posted by Stephen Fox

The competition is open to ALL members new, infrequent, active, beginner and professional. There is no prize and its just for fun.

There is no bias for beginners and each photo should stand on its own merits when it comes to voting which is done by members.

Are you saying that only you and admin have control over the rules and don't propose to change them in the forseeable future? Might as well scrub the thread if that is the case

But I am not the only that has made suggestions for minor changes and thought it better to do it as an item in its own right rather than in comments on a particular month's comp and I would have thought a canvas of opinion for the rest of Feb could be constructive.

[Don Hoey]

Chris, while I can see where you are comming from on the thread starter, 10 pics and 20 comments would be 3 days effort for a professional/near professional/occasionally professional photgrapher based on 4 a day upload limit. 20 comments easily done in one day. I would welcome more photographers from those catagories joining WPF in the hope that they would post generally for the benefit of all. I have 2 members in mind who have been really great for imparting their knowledge and posting inspirational pics in the gallery and/or comps, and I would hope others would follow their example.

I have to admit to being a bit unhappy that our mods who do not fall into those catagories are the first to have their pics withdrawn in case of overwhelming entries. I run a constant top 3, as pics are entered into the comp, and I don't mind saying it, but my favourite was gone come the voting last time. NOT A HAPPY BUNNIE.

I agree with what Clive has posted re splitting beginners, intermediate & advanced as that also relies on folks being honest enough to catagorise themselves honestly in the first place.

As I'm now on my 3rd 5.4 ABV I ought to stop before I get carried away, so just a few thoughts for the pot.

Don

[Joe]

As a relatively new member I would urge....Please don't change the rules!

When I was about 14-15 I went along to a local photographic club. Their comp's were split into different 'ability' categories. with my Battered secondhand Praktica I bought b+W film and chemical with pocket money, so 'naturally' went into beginner level. I destinctly remember a pompus old fart, Leica around his neck advising me why I should be in in the category I was in. I didn't mind...until asking him about developer to use for a particular film, and his advice about composition improvements etc. What a Joke that was! To this day I think the Leica for guy in that club was the automatic 'pass' to enter your photos into the 'expert' level!
Last time I heard, I think that club no longer exists!

The fact that someone can sign onto this site, submit a photograph to see what others think is fundamental, not just to this excellent site, but surely to the photographs and photographers involved in general.
whether or not someone has just uploaded the one photo here, or uploads 4 every 24hours, earns a living from photographs, is a new starter, uses gear costing £50 or £5000, is totally totally irrelevant!
In the same way that a cracking photo can be taken with the £50 camera and a poor one with £5000, whether or not a pure amateur or pro takes the photo shouldn't matter.
Yes, by pure percentage of 'cracking' shots is going to be higher for the pro who takes several thousand a week....but shouldn't that be a spur to others who perhaps don't take that many to take more photos....particularly those using digi gear...afterall, without film costs it is much cheaper. No one need spend a fortune on travel to far away lands to get those photos either. To quote something David Bailey once said, "if someone takes enough photos of a mushroom in their back garden, eventually they might end up with a cracking photograph of a mushroom"
I'm never going to be the best photographer in the world, I would hope I also never stop learning new things. Presumptions about who a member is, what they do it for, or what they do it with shouldn't be a factor....the photo uploaded here is.
As a photographer I love seeing other peoples photographs, and anything that might discourage the number of people submitting photos or the number of photos submitted is surely a bad thing for all here????
Freedom of too many constraints is one thing that makes this website so appealing. please keep it this way.

[greypoint]

Being totally non-competetive as far as taking photos is concerned I must confess I've only entered a couple of the rounds so have'nt any particular comments to make. As a different way of praising/encouraging members perhaps we could have something on the lines of 'gallery of the week/month'. One of the mods could be in charge - members would send a pm with a nomination -top nominated gallery would be named in the forum and the member asked to choose 2-5 of their favourite pictures to add as thumbnails and to write a little about how they go about taking their pictures etc.
Just a thought .....I'll go away now....!

Originally Posted by Joe

whether or not someone has just uploaded the one photo here, or uploads 4 every 24hours, earns a living from photographs, is a new starter

To reply to this and Clive's similar argument, I don't think it is quite irrelevent.

Someone who has posted 10 pics and made 20 comments has contributed something to the forum and it is that CONTRIBUTION TO that I am looking for before taking a win away.

I am also a bit unhappy about he idea that some images are 'winners' in an absolute way. I suspect some people of analysing other wins and adapting their style towards them. That leads to sterility. One of the strengths of this forum is the incredible variety of things members have thought worth shooting.

[robski]

Chris whilst I take your point about people joining only to post in the competition and never to be seen again. I do believe you are wasting your breath in asking for admendments to competition rules. We have been here before many times and you will never get over the " Jobs Worth", "Rules are Rules" and "It does not fit this model or that model" culture.

To some extent I go along with Sue's (Greypoints) ideas. Competitions don't have to be overly competitive. What's wrong with running Sue's idea as well as the current format ?

I am afraid if mindsets are not prepared to be changed we just have to suffer in silence with what we disagree with.