Beginner advice

[bpw]

Karen, a very good friend of mine, wants to buy her first DSLR and lenses and is confused by the alternatives. I am a Canon user and I’m very happy with Canon, but I’m trying not to influence her too much, and I know nothing about the other cameras and third-party lenses.

She wants the camera for a wide range of subjects, from landscapes to wildlife. She enjoys macro (she’s used my old Nikon Coolpix) and says she would like to do some bird photography. So, a small macro lens and a 400 mm telephoto zoom? I suspect she will have to go for third-party lenses initially.

If you were starting again and wanted to do it well, but cheaply, what would you do?

[Don Hoey]

Mmmm.

Very good friend creates a bit of a problem. I have just been through some of the images on your web site. STUNNING. Now if I was a close friend I would be constantly comparing my results against these. Plenty of room for dissapointment.

Camera brand is really down to personal preference. How it fits in your hand, ease of operation etc. If the two of you regularly go out together, then going with Canon makes sense as you are familiar with it and can easily advise. The problem here as I see it is lens quality. The obvious quality of Nikon Foxy Bob's glass has had the same effect on me.

So I would say it is really a case of primary interest. If birds were the prime interest then putting as much of the budget into quality zoom glass makes sense and go with a Macro lens later. If its macro then the same rule applies.

Of course if you were going to move up to the 30D ...... that could help Karens budget but not yours.

Don

[Andy]

As far as different manufacturers go, there's really not much in it either way... I'd probably advise Nikon or Canon because of the huge range of used lenses out there that can be purchased relatively cheaply, probably more old Nikon lenses out there that can still be used than Canon, though I suspect there are work-arounds and adapters to get an 80's Canon lens to work on a modern Canon DSLR.
If you like Canon, recommend Canon to your friend.

As I say, for lenses, don't ignore the used market.. you can pick up some stunning glass for great prices, and where macro is concerned, you needn't worry about the latest auto-focus lenses. Just because a lens is old, doesn't mean it's optically inferior to a new one, in fact it could be better.

cheers,
Andy

[bpw]

Thanks for your comments Don.

Now if I was a close friend I would be constantly comparing my results against these. Plenty of room for dissapointment.

It does worry me, as I don’t want Karen to be disappointed. She has a limited budget, so she can’t afford the equivalent of my equipment (not that mine is special), so I’d rather she asked around and got some idea of the best ‘beginner-level’ alternatives.

Camera brand is really down to personal preference. How it fits in your hand, ease of operation etc. If the two of you regularly go out together, then going with Canon makes sense as you are familiar with it and can easily advise.

I have hinted that she considers Canon for the reason you stated – I’m familiar with their products and she could borrow bits of my kit – but I haven’t oversold the idea. I would hate to ‘recommend’ a system and then for her to be disappointed with it.

So I would say it is really a case of primary interest. If birds were the prime interest then putting as much of the budget into quality zoom glass makes sense and go with a Macro lens later. If its macro then the same rule applies.

I agree absolutely and I’ll suggest this.

Of course if you were going to move up to the 30D ...... that could help Karens budget but not yours.

I have actually been considering upgrading and started a new thread some while ago to discuss this (I must conclude this). However, my work situation has changed recently so I have to wait a while before deciding what to do.

I think we all know that the main factor in photography is the user, rather than the gear, but as long as the equipment Karen gets is capable of good shots, then we’ll be happy. What I’m hoping is that someone might suggest a particular kit (body and perhaps third-party lenses) that might do the trick.

[yelvertoft]

Originally Posted by bpw

as long as the equipment Karen gets is capable of good shots, then we’ll be happy. What I’m hoping is that someone might suggest a particular kit (body and perhaps third-party lenses) that might do the trick.

All the currently available dSLR equipment on the market is capable of producing good pictures, you just have to work at some of the setups a bit more than others. This boils down to personal preferences, how something feels right in the hand is a very individual decision and this, probably as much as anything else, will have a greater impact on the resulting image than the badge on the front.

Get her to go into a local dealer and have a play with some of the popular entry-level models. This will tell you far more than any forum postings ever will.

Sorry if this isn't much help, but I strongly believe how each individual uses their equipment is a much bigger factor than how big a particular manufacturer's marketing budget is.

Duncan

[bpw]

Originally Posted by yelvertoft

All the currently available dSLR equipment on the market is capable of producing good pictures, you just have to work at some of the setups a bit more than others. This boils down to personal preferences, how something feels right in the hand is a very individual decision and this, probably as much as anything else, will have a greater impact on the resulting image than the badge on the front.

Get her to go into a local dealer and have a play with some of the popular entry-level models.

I agree with this entirely, but having thought about it, perhaps the camera body is not the main issue. If it feels good in the hands, is there much to choose between the Canon and Nikon (and perhaps Pentax) entry-level camera bodies?

I think perhaps the lenses are more of an issue. Karen will probably not be able to afford Canon or Nikon lenses up to 400mm, so I’m interested to know which third-party lenses people think are the best of the rest?

[yelvertoft]

Originally Posted by bpw

I think perhaps the lenses are more of an issue. Karen will probably not be able to afford Canon or Nikon lenses up to 400mm, so I’m interested to know which third-party lenses people think are the best of the rest?

As a beginner, you can't go far wrong with the usual manufacturer's kit lens supplied at very low cost with most dSLR bodies. They are better than most give them credit for. On top of that, the Sigma 55-200 has a good reputation for the money at around £100. Beyond 200mm, I'd say it's better to wait and get experienced with these (relatively) short lenses before playing with the big stuff. As you no doubt know, getting good long lens pics involves a bit more than "point and click".

Duncan

[Leif]

Originally Posted by bpw

I agree with this entirely, but having thought about it, perhaps the camera body is not the main issue. If it feels good in the hands, is there much to choose between the Canon and Nikon (and perhaps Pentax) entry-level camera bodies?

I think perhaps the lenses are more of an issue. Karen will probably not be able to afford Canon or Nikon lenses up to 400mm, so I’m interested to know which third-party lenses people think are the best of the rest?

I would caution you against Pentax as in the UK it is harder to get Pentax lenses and accessories. Fewer shops stock them, and there's less price competition. There's also rumour, true or not, about Pentax's future.

Canon sounds the sensible route if you have Canon. You and your friend will be able to swap lenses. And Canon are a bit cheaper than Nikon in the UK (at least when I last looked).

[bpw]

Karen eventually went for the Nkon D70s and 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX lens. She will look at macro and telephoto at a later date if things go well.

I’ve had a play with the camera and it’s nice – solid and good to hold. The only immediate off-putting aspect is the exposure compensation; having to take your finger off the shutter and use two other buttons to make adjustments? Still, I suppose it’s something you get used to.

I'll encourage Karen to join the forum!

[Andy]

Originally Posted by bpw

The only immediate off-putting aspect is the exposure compensation; having to take your finger off the shutter and use two other buttons to make adjustments? Still, I suppose it’s something you get used to.

I'll encourage Karen to join the forum!

I think you'll find that on many of the non-pro dslr cameras, in fact the Canon cameras may be even more convoluted than the Nikon in that regard. I know where you're coming from though... I'm lucky to be able to put exposure comp on a rotary dial and really appreciate the feature.