Best P&S camera to supplement SLRs

[Tannin]

I have a pair of Canon 20Ds, typically I have a 500 f/4 lens on one for birds, and swap between various lenses on the other for landscape, macro, and general work, anything from EFS-10-22 up to a 100-400.

There are times when the weight and clumsiness of all that gear is just too much, and I want to only carry the 20D & 500 f/4 for birds, but still be able to grab the odd landscape or wildflower along the way. Plus there are times when the second DSLR isn't really avaliable as (for example) when I've got the 100-400 mounted ready for flight shots but want a quick general record of the location (i.e., wide to normal range) and swapping lenses isn't an option (sand, dust, rain, or just needing to keep the 100-400 ready at a moment's notice).

Eventually, I'll get a 3rd body (probably whatever replaces the 1D II & 1Ds II), but that's a while away, and the complete set will be way too heavy for walking any distance with.

Seems like the answer is to buy a little point and shoot camera to drop into a pocket. Wouldn't cost too much.

Priorities:

* Macro capability for bugs and wildflowers.
* Wider the better. (Don't care too much about the long end.)
* Fast shutter response (I hate the press - wait - click thing that P&S cams inflict on you)
* Fast start-up from sleep state. (If you have to wait for it to mess about zooming itself back out again and getting organised, that's painful.)
* Prefer proper CF, not those SD things (I know, I know, everything is SD these days, so I'll have to go that way - and if it isn't either CF or SD, I'm not even considering it. Well, XD if really pressed, but I absolutely won't go the Sony propietary route.)
* 10MP in a sensor that small is stupid - just a waste of storage space of pixels that physically cannot contain more detail. Something around 5MP to at most 8 seems sensible.
* Clean higher ISOs? Not too fussed as I have the SLRs, but could be a bonus I guess. Good dynamic range would be nice. (This is something that little digicams seem to do better than my SLRs, by the way.)
* Image quality that isn't going to make me wind up never using it because the 20Ds are so much beter. Sure, I won't match the SLRs, but it would be nice to see something in the same ballpark.
* Waterproof? A bonus, not essential.
* Fully swivelling screen. Gone out of fashion these days it seems, but the A95 style any angle screen was great.
* AA batteries would save me having yet another charger, it can share with my GPS and a few other things.

My old Canon A95 would have been just about perfect, except that the macro ability wasn't great and it broke and Canon didn't repair it, they replaced it with an A610 which I sold. Ergonomics wise, the even older Nikon Coolpix 4500s were great: that swivel body was excellent.

I'm not too fussed about the cost, but it doesn't seem rational to spend too much, given that it's a 3rd camera and might not get too much use.

[Gidders]

I'll be watching replies with interest. I haven't got half the gear youve got (well 20D, 17-85, 70-300 + bits & peices) but there are times when I'm just down the park with the kids, not really taking photos but all of a sudden you need a camera. So one that will slip in the pocket and I would almost echo your spec - the only thing I would add would be the ability to take RAW.

I think you will struggle for some of your requirements, particularly fast shutter response. I used to have a Minolta A2 which had quite a good rep as a prosumer digicam but shutter response & focusing spreed (lack of) were key in my decison to get a dSLR.

I'm tempted to look for a Nikon 5400 or 8400 on ebay - anybody any other suggestions?

[sassan]

Not fulfill all your requests but my vote is for Canon S-3. I got mine for about US$ 329 from the last adaroma sale while ago and price seems dropping since. If you are lucky to find S-2 you have same exact features for 100-150 dollar less just at 1 meg pixel less. I see S3/S2 as the other alternative to SLR with real SLR feel. 12x optical lens is phenomenal and you should see moon shots with IS yes Image Stabilizer on. You will not be disappointed if you liked the A95 only memory is SD / MMC so be prepare not to share your CF collection.

BTW I think every real professional photographer, should have a point and shot with empty memory card and fully charged battery in all assignments. Who remembers that Olympic event that the skier fall right in front of all photographers, all equipped with long long teles, with none being able to get a single picture of the event, making it an unforgettable shameful event.

[Tannin]

Originally Posted by sassan

BTW I think every real professional photographer, should have a point and shot with empty memory card and fully charged battery in all assignments. Who remembers that Olympic event that the skier fall right in front of all photographers, all equipped with long long teles, with none being able to get a single picture of the event, making it an unforgettable shameful event.

I didn't see that, but yeah .. I know exatly what you mean. I've had it happen to me from time to time. Like the time I was photographing White-browed Babblers at Gluepot and the very shy and difficult to find Striated Grasswren popped out of the spinifex and practically ran over my feet - and here I was holding a massive 500mm lens that doesn't focus closer than 4.5 metres! Ouch! If only I'd has the 100-400 dangling over the other shoulder, or even my old A95 in my pocket!

Off the top of my head, I'd have thought that the S-2 and S-3 were a bit too large to qualify as pocket cameras, but I bought an S-2 for my father during the run-out, so I'll ask to borrw that and see what I think. (I was very pushed for time the day it arrived and didn't even get to take it out of the box before I gave it to him.)

[Wheeler]

I've got an Ixus 750 which certainly qualifies for pocketability but its lack of manual tweakability is frustrating. What I'd really like is something that size that works like my old Canon G2 did. However, it was purchased for its size and it's given me shots in situations where I wouldn't have bothered taking a larger camera.

[Snowyowl]

Yesterday I hiked back to the river carrying my 20D, lenses, binos, scope and window mount plus my Coolpix 4500 and accessories. I felt like a regular beast of burden. I admit that I cheated and drove half way.
My Coolpix 4500 is older but takes excellent pictures including macro. I think that they are still available on Ebay and shouldn't cost an arm and leg.

[Nigel G]

If you can find one my Oly C7070 will do 90% of what your asking for - speed will probably be the limiting factor but its not bad for a P&S but 7mp and includes RAW.

Just checked ebay and surprisingly there is one just listed - it says the memory is xD but it takes real CF as well. All my pics on WPF were taken with one and anything of mine from the last year on BF were digiscoped with it.

There is a buy it now option - I recommend you do - there were some comprehensive reviews on the net when it came out if you do a search.

ebay -link

Priorities:

* Macro capability for bugs and wildflowers. YES
* Wider the better. 27mm
* Fast shutter response OK in full AF, Manual F -Near Instant
* Fast start-up from sleep state. Not particularly
*Prefer proper CF, YES
* 10MP in a sensor that small is stupid 7MP
* Clean higher ISOs? OK at 200 fair at 400
* Image quality subjective
* Waterproof? cant remember
* Fully swivelling screen. Yes - better than A95/CP4500.
* AA batteries No

[miketoll]

Have a good look round the dpreview website and the linked sites. Don't think there is any single camera that matches all your criteria so you will have to work out your priorities and decide accordingly. The latest P&S cameras have far less shutter lag these days.

[Jon Sharp]

I have a 2nd hand Canon Pro1 - it uses the CF card, has an L series lens standard -with a macro setting and is ideal for a carry around. The menu's are typical canon so if your used to the 20d then...

Incidentally - this is also used by me on professional shoots when I require a realtime image in the laptop. The images are as good as I get form the 350d's I also use!

You can't find these new no they've been replaced by G7's or something but if you can find a good one on ebay or amazon then go for it.
I won't replace mine until the image sensor's get up to 15mp.

[Tannin]

Thanks everybody. Still reading with interest ... still not sure what I'll do yet.

Dan, I don't think I could go back to a Coolpix 4500 happily. I actually still own one but it has an intermittent exposure problem and overexposes around 50% of the shots it takes now. I could have it mended or buy another one, but the 4MP quality is a little on the low side, especially for landscapes with greenery in them, which always need as much detail as you can throw at them, and it has bad barrel distortion at the wide end - the end I'd mostly be using. Also, it's horribly slow and you can't change settings until the buffer empties (which wouldn't be the problem for the uses I have in mind that it was when I was digiscoping). On the other hand, I loved the way it folded up and slipped into a little belt pouch - these modern things with protruding lenses are never as convenient.

I'll have a look at my father's S2, and then wander into a shop to try a few out in the hand, I think. Meanwhile, more comments are welcome!