Third Grids

[nldunne]

Sassan

Following is a diagram of a grid I did at 3 X 2 and 6 X 4 inches. They have helped me put my lines in my image in a very accurate compositional manner.

After doing the lines on paper, I took the paper with the lines to a photo copier shop and they put the lines on a sheet of clear plastic - like over head projection machine plastic.

I first put one of these grids over an image on an art reproduction on a web site or on one in my art books (depending on size), move the lines around to where I like the lines of the grid to be on it, then make a note where the cross lines are on the image.

Next, I put these grids over my images on the P C screen and move the lines to the same spot as they were on the reproduction noted above, then move the crop frame to the outer border lines of the grid. Cllick Done or Crop to finish.

I also take them to the photofinishers to check on compossition balance of my images (and their work) when I get them.

Norm D

[waffle]

I don't quite understand the point of this - surely it's better to do the composition in the camera?
As to the photofinishers, don't they just print what you supply?

[nldunne]

Waffle

What I said to Sassan above is how I made it and how I use it.

I put my image on the screen first, then, I put this plastic sheet with the third marks on it over the image. Next I enlarge the image (or leave it as is) to bring in just the area I want in the final image.

Next I use my crop tool to bring in my lines on the image to match my outer lines of my third grid. I try to make sure my cross points are on a person or animal's eye.

The idea originated when I put this grid over art reproductions in books from the galleries I visited in Europe to get composition ideas. I just saw where all the lines in the grid 'fell' on the reproduction image and copied the same placement onto my image(s).

My diagonal lines on the grid, help me with my perespective on buildings and such.

I hope this helps.

Norm D

[waffle]

Thanks Norm, I see that but can't understand why this is preferable to composing at the picture-taking stage?
Surely if I just rattle off shots and rely on fixing the composition when I get home then I'm a) losing image size and b) not learning how best to compose correctly in the first place?

[Ciabatta]

Originally Posted by nldunne

I put my image on the screen first, then, I put this plastic sheet with the third marks on it over the image. Next I enlarge the image (or leave it as is) to bring in just the area I want in the final image.

I'm shooting on film so I don't have an LCD screen on my Camera to hold the grid against, how can I use it to imptove my composition skills ?

[nldunne]

Waffle and Ciabatta

As for rattling off exposures - I prefer to suggest - one take one's time to do an image slowly and study the subject and learn all one can from it - at the location. By this I mean, texture, light level, subject composition - feathers on a bird for example, or wood texture on an old building - everthing that is in front of you.

I came up through the film days and we only had one chance to make our image as good as we could in those days. I have carried that idea over to digital.

For any one wanting to try this grid idea, I use the grid(s) over the image on my P C screen. Although I have put them over my digi cam screens too.

I hold the grid very solid over the image on the screen with one hand, and carefully use the crop tool and mouse to bring in my image borders to match the outer border of the grid with the other hand.

Slow - yes - at first!

However, it is one of the most accurate ways I have tried to study composition. I love putting the grid over art reporduction images from the Old Masters as well. They were the best there was at compositions and that is my reason for doing this.

Anyone can use this - the cam medium does not matter. It is a matter of wanting to learn from the Masters of Art how to put your image together in your cam (or on a canvas if you can paint).

I still do most of this subject placement in my cam on location and just do a very small touch up on here. The more I do on location, the happier I am. I hate sitting here for any length of time correcting my laziness on location.

As for the photofinishers, I take the grid and place it over my prints in the same way I do over my art reproductions to make sure the photofinishers gave me the proper composition.

I hope this helps a bit. Ask, if not!

Norm D

[Ciabatta]

I still don't understand how this can be used with slide film. surely it's better to compose the image in camera rather than on a PC screen as there willbe less cropping required and therefore less loss of quality which is particularly relevant when printing at 18x12 inches or projecting the image ?

[nldunne]

The best way to do it with slide film - scan the image into the P C and go from there as posted above. That is the only way that I know.

Norm D

[miketoll]

I'm afraid I just compose the picture in the viewfinder to what looks right to my eye. I'm aware of some of the compositional ''rules'' but don't want to slavishly follow them, they are guidelines only and sometimes a better picture can result from breaking them. Don't get me wrong, a great deal can be learnt from studying the great painters but even they did not always agree amongst themselves and developed new ideas and broke the rules - if they had not done so art would never develop and would forever be fozen in time endlessly repeating itself. As far as the grid goes this does not always work for prints as if you print at different sizes of paper the ratios of the sides varies so the grid and the positions of the points of interests and their relationships varies.

[waffle]

But if the slide is only intended for projection not printing, what benefit is there to scanning it - the original won't be altered.
Would it not make more sense to carry a grid with you in the field so that you can look through it at the original scene and apply it in-camera? Maybe something rigged up to sit on the camera flash shoe?