Christine,

You got quite impressive magnification on that one. Reversing the 50 will not get you so high unless you try either tubes or a tc or maybe both.

Having just seen crazee horse's post then I am in between moon shots ( 400 + tcs ) action shots of insects ( probably reversed 50 ) and ultra closeups ( bellows tubes and anything to give magnification of small creatures ).

WPF just keeps you so busy. :D :D :p

Don

Don this is with the old Tessar reversed stoped down to f11 the image is softer and cold looking. Not impressed.

I have been reading this thread with interest. I did use this technique some 30 years ago with my Pentax Spotmatic using a 200mm on the camera with a 50mm lens reversed. I still have them and the coupling ring.

However, the lenses that I now use have much larger diameters. I have the following
100-400mm diam 77mm
24-105mm diam 77mm
10-22mm diam 77mm
200mm diam 72mm
Do I have any hope of getting a suitable coupling ring?

Dave

So glad you have found the thread interesting Dave. I think you may have a job to get hold of a reversing ring for that size but you could do what I did. I have a p system 58mm adapter. I duck taped an old 50mm lens to the adapter it doesn't look very tidy as I had just taken the duck tape off and stuck it back to take photo.

Adapters are £3.99 from this firm for the 77mm ones
http://www.virtualvillage.co.uk/item...edium=shopping

Thanks Christine, I may well give that a go.

Dave

Christine,

As it is an old lens I don't know about lens coatings. Image is sharp but lacks contrast. You have certainly captured a lot of detail that would be hard to see with the naked eye. Quite facinated by the feet.

I had a little play to increase contrast. I guess a touch of 81A filter in CS would reduce the cold feel.

Don

Dave,

Be aware these adaptor rings are available in two outside diameters A = 77mm and P = 100mm.

For the 77mm filter thread you will need two rings from the P series. These can then be taped together to give a thread each side.

Link to the Cokin web site http://www.cokin.co.uk/pages/main.htm

Don

A much better Cokin link http://www.cokin.com/

Don

Somehow I knew in my rush to post that these rings came in various outside dimensions, I got it a bit wrong re series and dims, so this is a correction. :o :o

A series - 67mm
P series - 84mm
Z-Pro series - 100mm

I have found a 77mm thread P series and the land ( free flat area around the rim ) is 5mm. Probably a bit shy if mounting anything heavy. So for mounting 77mm threaded lenses I would look for Z-Pro adaptor rings. This would allow sufficient land for them to be drilled and screwed or popriveted together for ultimate security.

Don

Many thanks for all the info Don. Later this week when I will have some time I will try my lenses out just hand held to see what may work and then investigate the means of attaching.

Dave

Bluebottle - not a pretty sight. :eek:

This was pure chance and spotted on my first try at hoverflys in flight. Standard 105mm lens and 100mm of extension. Full flash.

Don

I disagree, that is pretty. In a spooky horror movie kind of way.

Some of you might be interested in this software:

http://www.heliconsoft.com/heliconfocus.html

It allows you to combine multiple images of the same subject, each with a different plane of focus, to create one image with enhanced depth of field. I am sorely tempted, and if I get some suitable images, I will give it a try.

Also, how do people get precise focus on these small insects? I tried with a macro lens and tubes at the weekend and it was extremely hard. A focus rail really is needed.

Thanks for the link Leif, I have just been out taking more. LOL!. I am addicted. I do wish I had a proper macro though.

Leif,

I have not yet managed to find anything I could get a tripod mounted camera to before its gone. I have used either nothing or a monopod, relying on flash to freeze any camera movement. Lens to subject distance is very short, about 1 1/2", so finding the subject is pretty tricky, as due to the shallow dof its invisible in the viewfinder even if you are lined up on it, at anything over 2 1/2".

You are right in saying that for a tripod job then a focusing rail is essential. Use of bellows can be a great help as you can focus with them over a short distance ( probably 1/2" ). Mine are a cheapo Panagor set from years ago ( never could afford the Nikon ones ).

If I come across something that is not likely to move during the action, I will put it on my milling table as that has micro control, and take a seies of pics to try out
' Heliconsoft '.

Don

Tee hee :D :D :D

Don

Here it is. :D This was with my 75-300mm +31mm +13mm exif is included. Hand held about 4ft away.

I was afraid that you were using flash. Yet more expense ...

I'm sure someone has mentioned this, but I tried a reversed 28mm lens on my D200, and adding extension tubes significantly increased the magnification. Sadly my Triplus tubes are rather poor quality. (I think they are the same as Kenko.) I once had Nikon tubes and stupidly sold them.

Christine,

You have me there ....................... BRILLIANT !!!!!!!!!!! :cool: :cool:

I doubt that I will ever equal that.

I just looked at Exif : 1/319 sec at f5.6, ISO 100. Was this using the home made ringflash, pop-up, or seperate flash ?

.................................................. .................................................. ......................................

Leif,

If you are able to reverse a 28mm then forget the tubes and just use that. All you now require is a diffusion panel taped above the lens and you can use the D200 pop-up. It will be good for around f16 at ISO200/400. That would get you something like the Bluebottle, but not a flight shot as I have struggled with that and less magnification.

As you have a 200 macro, I will see what can be done with D100 using the pop-up and my 200 f4 with tubes. I will not be able to get your IQ though.

Do not be too concerned about your Triplus tubes v the Nikon ones. I started out using cut down toilet rolls years ago when I struggled with the cost of film and processing, never mind buying kit.

I might even try reversed 50mm on a tc to see what I get.

Don

Don, I didn't use flash at all it is just lit with the sunlight, it was underexposed by about 2 stops so had to bring it out. The hoverfly was about a foot above an empty planter just soil as background, I was pointing downwards when I took the shot.

Well there you go Christine. That level of magnification at 1/320 sec, hand held :eek: . I could not do that in a milliion years. I would need to look at the prog that Chris has posted in the Darkroom thread. :)

Very neat idea re the lighting though. ;)

Don

I found this spider lurking in the corner of the workshop lean-to. A example of were there is no possibility of using a tripod. In fact even getting a reasonable angle that allowed viewing in the vewfinder was a problem. To give some sense of scale, the spiders egg ball is about 6mm in diameter.

I decided to give the D100 and pop-up flash a go.

Pic 1 ( full frame ) is with reversed 24mm at f16
Pic 2 ( full frame ) with Kenko 1.4tc and reversed 24mm at f16
Pic 3 shows kitchen towel used as pop-up flash diffuser. PK12 tube is on the end of the 24mm to act as a lens hood.
Pic 4 ( full frame ) D2X, standard 105mm, plus PK-12, PK-13 extension tubes plus bellows. ( Total 170mm extension ).

Don

Wow! Don, a fantastic set of photos, the DOF is short but they are so crisp.
You wouldn't catch me that close to a spider of that size:eek: I would have to be at least 3feet away if not more. That egg sack is huge how does it feed or get around.

2nd of the set is superb Don. Real nightmare stuff if you look deep into its eyes!

In case you are interested, that is a female Nursery Web Spider, also known as a Wolf Spider. I find them rather cute!

I was suggesting tubes + reversed lens to get a range of magnifications. I was able to get about 4x with a tube, the 28mm lens on its own giving about 2x I believe.

All this talk of home made diffusers, soft boxes and ring flashes has got me wondering what I can knock up. The only problem is making something rugged enough to carry several miles cross country in a backpack.

Here is a link to various magnification ratio's. OK its a Nikon link but then knowing me it has to be. :D http://www.nikonlinks.com/unklbil/macro_adapter.htm


Leif,

Lack of dof really starts to become an issue even with a reversed 24. Although adding a tc or tubes will increase magnification pic 2 of the spider set shows how much dof has been lost in the process. I think this is where sensor resolution becomes a serious asset as it allows for a fair crop of an image at lower magnification.

Too windy to play outdoors today but I am still searching for the best compromise. Wish I had the reach of a 105 in a macro lens now.

For backpacking and only using the D200 pop-up then a few sheets of kitchen roll and a bit of masking tape is probably as rugged and small as you'll get. As the dragonfly/fungii master with macro as your primary tool, then if I was in your position there would be only one route I would go, and that is a proper job.

Nikon SB-R1 Close Up Remote Kit or Sigma EM-140 DG Ring Light Flash.

The Nikon unit being the more versatile of the two, and you can add additional flash units at a later date. i-TTL so no flash knowledge or calculations required.

Don

Christine,

If it moves out of the corner so I can get a decent angle on it I will retake on side view at lower magnification as its body really is quite small relative to the egg sack.

I think I need a set up that gives greater lens and therefore finger distance before the large autumn ones appear.

Don

Nooo ... my wallet is already starting to give me dirty looks on a regular basis ...

Seriously, I allow myself a limited number of toys per year, and I have pretty much reached this years limit with the 85mm micro.

Regarding limited depth of field, yes I agree that is the killer. I photographed a Nettle Weavil at the weekend, and although I quite liked the image, DOF was not really enough at F22, and diffraction was seriously reducing resolution. It would make a good 6x4" print but no bigger. I am playing with the idea of using that special software to combine multiple images to get increased DOF. I will experiment at the weekend. The issue is whether or not I can get multiple images of a bug in field conditions.

Don't give up on the great outdoors. I use a mini tripod leg attached to a ground spike, and a clamp at the top to steady plants. I've attached a Ladybird Nymph photographed outdoors on a clamped leaf. I was using a macro lens with tubes. And make sure you go out early or late, or on a cool day, when insects are dopey.

Leif,

Well I am not surprised about the first part as you have the 85 as that is a SERIOUS bit of kit. I will be interested to know how you get on with it. Certainly takes a bit of practice.

As for the pic ......... then to use an expression from Mohamad " you are killing me softly ".

Don

Hi Don,

I think I'm now sorted. Having played around with my lenses and in particular an old 50mm Takumar lens from my Spotmatic days, I've decided that the most appropriate combination will be my current 200mm lens with the 50mm reversed. I already have a 49/58 coupling ring (male-male) which goes on the 50mm lens and all I now need is step-down rings from 72mm to 58mm which I have just ordered from http://www.vintagecameras.co.uk/stepping.htm. It needed two rings to do the job. I will report back when I have some results.

Next problem is to sort out the lighting - there's already tons of help here on that.

Dave

Dave,

50mm Takumar left wide open should be fine reversed on the 200mm. I hope you have fun when the step down ring arrives. :)

I had a Spotmatic in the old days, so instant recognition of the 50mm. ;)

Don

The rings arrived this morning and here is my first attempt.

I found that using my 150mm macro (Sigma) with the Takumar 50mm reversed the easier to start with as the magnification is slightly less.(3x)

The first is with the 150mm alone on closest setting (1:1) and the next as above. Both are full frame (just reduced in size).

It is very difficult with such a small depth of field. I attempted the centre of a daisy but dof was a serious problem.

Dave

Welcome to the club Dave.

Once you have had a play you just become a bit more sensitive to what will, and what won't, work at these magnifications due to lack of dof. But the upside is you have a whole new world of bug life now available to you. :)

Don

I've been reading this thread with interest.
Wife Jacky (wisher on here) and I have been out in the garden taking advantage of the good weather....I'm sure they'll be one or two posted up here soon
I not so long ago dug out some old cheap 4 element teleconvertors, took the glass out of them and have used these as extension tubes.
As I have loads of kit from the now defunct Contax system, we've got a Contax lens to Canon adapter so Jacky can use some of the lenses. she's mainly been using an old Yashica 50mm on a reversal ring (which I have to admit is tricky), whilst I've been experiementing with 180mm,135mm,90mm tamron lenses and the 50mm f1.4 pictured here attatched to those two modified teleconvertors. (on my usual RTS +W6 drive combination)
Incidentally, the added Ali' tripod mount bracket was dug out from a box of bits a while back...I'd made it back in school metalwork lessons when everyone else was making candle stick holders and ashtrays! (the teacher was well impressed....but didn't realise I was doing it to get out of welding... which I always hated! LOL):D

I haven't done much macro for years, other than a couple I posted a while back here. It's an interesting side of photography I think we could both be geting use to....it's just the dreaded DOF we all need tho!

Point is...if anyone wants to get into macro on the cheap, there's LOADS of Contax mount stuff going for pennies on the secondhand market (everyone looks to be getting rid)...some of the lenses are top class, and there's plenty of mount adapters about too:)

Results of my first trial using Combine ZM. As this is a free program it is fitting to post results in Macro On The Cheap.
Link http://www.hadleyweb.pwp.blueyonder..../combinez5.htm

Refer to Leifs thread on Helicon Focus as that is a similar program.

The subject is a fridge magnet 4 inches long at around 30 degrees to the camera. Lens aperture of f4 and 4 frames taken at various points of focus. A bit of a hard test as due to the angle, the total dof required is 2 1/2 inches.

The most obvious thing when trial focussing was the effect of magnification change. I have overlaid frame 4 on frame 1 and the difference is very obvious. Frame I focus point is on the eye, and frame 4 on the tail. A composte of those two frames is attatched to give an idea of the dof at f4.

How do I think it did ? Very well. I should have taken a further frame as it is a bit soft behind the side fin. One area on the top fin does not contain the detail in frame 4 and appears smudged, but otherwise I am impressed. Due to the magnification effect of focussing I think it would be hard/impossible to combine these manually in Photoshop. Nothing fancy done in the program just a staight stack of the four images.

Lens was 55 micro so nothing fancy in terms of a focussing rail.

All images are full frame.

Don

That's fantastic Don. I can see that with a macro lens it will work by focussing with the lens ring, however with the super macro stuff I see that I do need some type of focussing rail. Any ideas on how that can be done on the cheap? I don't happen to have a milling machine at hand.

One thought I did have was to use a device we had at school where I taught called a lab-jack (or scissor-jack) to move the subject rather than the camera. They however cost in the region of £70-£80 and can support 20kg which is rather more than a macro specimen is likely to be. A miniature version is all that would be needed but nothing seems available. Any ideas?

Dave

One focus rail option is the Manfrotto 454 'Micro Positioning Plate' here: http://www.warehouseexpress.com/?/bi...rotto.html#acc Scroll down to the section marked 'Camera Brackets, Mounts, etc.'

Dave,

Adeys suggestion is probably the best. Link to the Manfrotto page for details http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/...id=107&idx=116 . It takes a moment to load.

Alternative without micro positioning is 357 UNIVERSAL SLIDING PLATE link http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/...id=107&idx=115

The 357 is cheaper but not as effective as the 454 particularly at these magnifications.

I have had a play with reversing a 50mm on a 200mm and tripod mounted I set focus on the lens to roughly mid point. Slid my camera on 357 plate to reasonable focus then used the lens focussing ring to achieve fine focus.

Field of view of this combo in the viewfinder is 5 1/2mm on the horizontal so some serious magnification.

Don

Brilliant Don, I have downloaded the program to have a go it looks like it works well. I have got the 58-58mm adapter ring now so will have to have a go at getting some close-up. I might have to buy another Canon 50mm lens so I can reverse onto that, it will be much easier to find focus than the reversed lens on the 75-300.