Amazing shot Don, I knew you'd love to try this sort of photography.
Very neat idea using foil sheets. (I want a GUN :( )
I bought another packet of balloons today, if I get time tonight I will take some more shots and changing the flash power.

Well the electrical trigger works Don - love the "grape shot" shot!!! so now you can peel grapes for all of us!!:D
Lello, have you any thoughts on perhaps making smoothies from the water/fruit juice bursts and the sound trigger??:D

Here are the shots from tonight (sorry more balloon shots) last ones :)
I find that moving the trigger further away and reducing the flash output I don't get the double exposures.
1st shot the balloon splitting
2nd Balloon filled with talc (made a bit of a mess in bathroom :D )
3rd Just water (sorry about the background I tried foil to reflect light)
4th Water with some washing up liquid (then shaken to make it frothy)

As I don't have a pellet gun like Don:( I improvised, I made a paper airplane with a needle taped to the front to make a dart :D (you can see it in some of the shots)

Cooking with gas now Lello.
Looked at the pics before reading the post and thought ............ paper airplane with a needle point :rolleyes: ....... good possibilites there too for deliberate inclusion. :)

I really must get round to actually reading the links posted in this thread.

Stevies birthday today so off to the shops. I may get time later to do a proper job of my foil trigger so it does not appear in shot.

Don

Great set of shots Lello - just a couple of points - were you on auto or manual focus because on Pic 1 rear wallpaper is in sharp focus? On pic 3 the airplane seems like a ghost image - I wonder why? This is a very good thread so thanks for starting it - I'm going to contribute some IR trigger shots as soon as I can get set up - Thanks again.

Hi Andy, Always manual, the first shot was taken in the Office, balloon 2" away from wall, the rest were taken in the bathroom, 2 and 4 with black backdrop and 3 with a big sheet of silver foil (which didn't work that well:( )
As for the ghost image I can assume like my early tries the flash duration was to long!!

I had a play with trying to sort the foil trigger today. Getting consistancy of pellet travel is still eluding me. Attached is a graphic that explains the problem.

So confident was I that .... yes another grape shot, but here the pellet had travelled way out of frame so too far. Bits of grape all over the place, and as I am using 55mm macro I had to wash the camera down afterwards. Important to use a filter as this needs cleaning after each shot. I am quite sure this would even apply if a 150mm lens was used as I even had bits of grape on my workshop clock on the wall opposite. :eek:

Well tomorrow is another day in which to try and solve the problem.

Don

I think with the set up you have, you could end up with different results every time you try :( all depending how the pellet comes through the foil.)
I will have think as well.
Somehow I do think you'll get there in the end:)

To all those "shooting grapes" out there - just a suggestion - take one polythene decorators sheet mark circle in appropriate place and star cut from centre so you make a hole with flaps that can just fit over the filter on the end of the lens and secure with velcro/elastic strap. Then hang polythene sheet on frame to provide splatter protection. Saves washing up!! :) :)

Brings a new meaning to the term grapeshot from the original one of a type of ammunition! Just a thought Don, the pellet from the pistol will vary each time as the velocity/power depends on the spring and other mechanical bits all working exactly the same way every time and they just won't. They will stay within an 'envelope' of peformance but not be repeatable with accuracy so you might end up going in circles. With your engineering skills you could make something better to fire a projectile with repeatable performance? BTW are you eating lots of fruit salad? :)

Kind of photographic scrap heap challenge then Mike. Not sure Stevie would impressed with mini explosive charges as in bullets, no moving parts there. :D

I did try a large lump of grape but it was lead flavoured. :p

I guess I just need to get round to taking more frames. Only fired around a dozen in this exercise so far. :rolleyes:

Don

First attempt at cutting a card with a pellet. Not as dramatic as the well known bullet shots. Slight alignment adjustment needed as the pellet is slightly rear of centre. :(

Attatched composite shows the frame at the moment the flash triggered and a frame taken after the action.

Vivitar flash at 1/30,000 sec burst

Don

Thats a really difficult task you have set yourself, the pellet must be behind the card and only just clipping it whilst moving away. I was thinking along the lines of a gas driven 'gun' like the more expensive air rifles or a mini crossbow which should both be more repeatable and if you used steel pellets for the gun you could eat the grapes.

Don, As you are missing the pellet in the shot , am I right in thinking you've either need to slow the pellet down or increase the speed of the flash? I take it the flash is at max speed (min power) if so then we need to try slow the pellet down! just thinking, what if you increase the thickness of the cardboard between the foil! would that help or have I missed the plot completely :D

Very good Don - I think the pellet has just moved behind the card as it pushed it out of the way - fixing the top of the card as well might help?

I am attatching a snap of my rather limited play space to give you guys some idea. Barrel end to target is 1 metre so there are limitations to the power of canon that can be safely used.

I agree on your comments on a gas gun Mike, but getting one is not really an option just to get this pic. My air rifle although very accurate is just too powerful to use in this space.

After my last post I tried with flat head pellets but they just mashed their way through so they are a non-runner. I have had 3 clear cuts but the trigger tripped before pellet/card contact, and where I got a clean cut and correct trip then the two strips of foil for the trigger stuck together causing the flash to strobe so that was a dead shot. :mad:

Lello, I am still using the Vivitar at min power giving 1/30,000 flash duration. Part of the problem is that I just went for this without sorting the trigger timing thing which perhaps I should have done as I would have had 3 good ones to post. Second and trickier thing is even at this range with the pistol clamped to my mill it is not consistantly accurate. I have done the 3 shot dry run all perfect, then set up the flash and that has worked fine but I had poor or partial cuts of the playing card. Very frustrating :( . On the pellet shape front then pointed pellets would make perfect cuts but give even greater alignment probs to hit the card edge on.

Full marks to the guy that did those shots with a proper gun. I have not given up yet though. :)

Andy, you could be right about greater support for the card but I am not sure if the work involved in making that will pay off in terms of increased good card cuts.

Don

I did not mean buy a gun Don but more the idea behind it. A tube for the projectile and a gas-tight chamber which you could pressurise with a bicycle pump through a non return valve (bicycle valve) and an accurate pressure gauge and a trigger or release mechanism. Or maybe one of those gas cylinders you can buy to make fizzy drinks to prime the cylinder. The thing is you could alter the pressure and so the velocity easily and over the short range you have that would not alter the trajectory significantly. Just happy thoughts to help keep you from getting bored! :D

Did anyone see BBC Television's "SpringWatch" on this last thursday?

Had an interesting few minutes talking and demonstrating the Sony box of tricks for capturing slo' mo' frame by frame footage of diving birds.
The demonstration was a water filled ballon, popped with a swiss army knife.
Worked really well, and in bright sunlight.....but he did say it takes 20 minutes to download a short burst of footage!! (and I should imagine the box of tricks costs silly money)

Great thread.
I'm sure there are many like me reading this through, watching to see what intrepid experiments are coming next :)

Yes I saw it and it gives interesting results. Bet you are right on the silly money but there is still something special about a stills shot taken at precisely the right moment.

Just failed here then Mike.

Today I had a read up on pellet gun ballistics and its way beyond the kit that I have to produce something more accurate than what I have for cutting a playing card. While on the subject of ballistics I found that the pellet from the pistol is travelling at around 380 ft per second, so it is in frame for 0.002 secs :eek: . No wonder I was struggling to get it in shot with my rudimentary trigger.

Well I had a play anyway and still never managed to get the pellet in shot. After a few partial cuts I decided to use flat head pellets to increase the possibilty of a full cut.

Attatched is a shot alas less the pellet but fractionally after the card was cut. I assume the shadow on the lower left is from a bit of the card as I used a flat head pellet for this shot. Exposure info : 1.6 secs @ f11, sufficient time to trip the shutter fire and fire the gun but not record ambient light. Flash duration, the critical thing 1/30,000 sec. Pellet travel time across the frame approx 0.00197 secs.

Also attached is a pic of a different view of my set up for the card shots. The trigger is the bit of card held by the red clips, and the red and black leads are connected to a standard pc lead linked to the Vivitar 283. To get alignment of the card, the kit on the bench is a vice on a compound table, mounted on a rotary table. The splatter on the background card is from the grape shots. :D

Don

Looks like you got through at least a pack of cards Don:) (I will have bring my own if I come for a game of Bridge :D), The fact that you got the cut card is quite incredible. Maybe you should drop grapes (from a great hight) on to the trigger and see what results you get (and make a fruit salad at the same time:) )
I have just found some party poppers, I will give them a go later just to see what sort result I get.
You gave it a very good try Don, Is there no way of slowing the pellet?

Well As I only had 3 party poppers, This is the best shot of the bunch,
1st shot with the trigger about 5" away all I got was the lid coming off :(
2nd shot moved the trigger about 2ft away and missed the shot (to much delay)
3rd shot (shown) moved trigger back to about 10" (better but need a bit more delay)
So, if I had had another popper I was going to put it at about 12"-14" away and hoped that would have worked :(

Lello,
Good try on the party popper. At least I am not the only one having syncing problems. ;)

Most of my probs are in the trigger. Getting it to fire at a precise point is the goal. I have had it trigger before the strike or after. Mid card strikes have often been a case of an off contact at the trigger causing the flash to strobe. Arrrh :mad: . Attatched is such an example in which I also failed to clamp the card hard enough so it moved under pellet impact. Bit of card flying off but no sign of the pellet.

On the accuracy front I have discovered that impact on the foil trigger can fractionally deflect the pellet. :( Only really a consideration for the card shot though.

I have 23 cards left to try mods to the trigger. Determined to do this for free, also it takes a different route to the sound trigger stuff that you are doing.

Your drop an object on the trigger would work and I will have a go. While I have the card clamp aligned I really want that shot so will persevere for now. Solution of the trigger problem being key to any exploding shots.

Don

Don, Lello you are going great - The shot of the card just after the cut and the party popper are very good. Too busy at the moment with the new toy but have found the ML-3 IR trigger so will set up and share ASAP. In days gone by I was issued with a Walther PPK or a Browning Hi Power - may be a little too powerful for this; mind you the new laser sights would ensure no misses!!

Back to playing with a trigger. Now on Mk3, and at least the pellet is now in frame :) even if I have lost alignment of the card. Mks 1 & 2 suffered from bounce and so strobed the flash :( .

Attatched 2 shots of the same card. HS Flash 6 really shows what happens to the trajectory of a flat head pellet after cutting 3/4 of its way through the card. The card distortion is the result of the pellet impact and it had nearly returned to flat by the time exposure was over.

Once again, flash used is a Vivitar 283 at a flash duration of 1/30,000 sec.

Don

Wow Don, you have been working hard. This is one project I can't compete in. Very impressive.
Show off:D:D.

Great shots, well done Don, I knew you'd get there in the end. I'm trying to find someone you can lend me a pellet gun so I can have go, In my younger days everybody had a slug gun!! now I can't find one

If only the pellet had not been deflected out of the DOF that would have been it - very impressive!

Lello,
Different world back then. :p

Mike,
I am still determined I will get a good one for you. ;)

Christine,
When I have the shot to satisy Mike, I will sort out an easy contact trigger anyone can make with a bit of card and kitchen foil. Not suitable for Lello's balloons but should OK for drop type impact shots. :)

Don

Very good Don, Setting up in my cellar - my son has an air rifle - almost ready to try the IR trigger but it's going to have to go some to match your shots and those of Lello - will post results soonest.

Bravo Don, superb work.

[QUOTE
Mike,
I am still determined I will get a good one for you. ;)
Don[/quote]

Grief, I am a hard task master aren't I? You should not be so good Don! :D

Taking a break from Mikes cut a card with a pellet mission :) to broaden the possibilities for others that might be interested.

This one was to offer possiblilies of high speed flash to those without seperate triggering devices. The only items required is a lead to allow the flash to be taken off the camera, and a means of triggering the camera ( cable release, other remote release or an assistant ) if the subject is a bit away from the camera.

Camera set to manual at sync speed, and flash in this case SB80-DX, set to 1/64 power on SC-17 lead. Flash has to be fairly close to the subject and aperture will be quite limited unless you have a camera that gives good high ISO performance. This shot was at ISO200 at f5.6, with a flash to subject distance of 12 inches. The workshop had just enough ambient light to allow me to see what I was doing but not enough to affect exposure which is purely flash. SB80-DX flash duration at 1/64 is 1/32,300 sec.

Don

Thanks Don, yet again you provide a very good example and food for thought - I think I might go back to magnesium powder, lit by a match in a dark room with the shutter locked open - you know - the old simple days!!!:)

Let us see a photo of you with your beard singed off! :D

Interesting shot Don, there are all sorts of possibilities aren't there?

Never tried the stuff Andy but that could certainly be interesting.

Just tried something different but 1/32,300 sec flash burst was not enough to freeze the spray from an aerosol.

Camera and flash set up as in my previous post.

Don

:D :D

Lucky I don't have any magnesium powder but sounds as if Andy does and maybe he will give it a go. :eek:

Before and after pic then Andy.

Don

Magnesium powder a real beard singer. Check this link for a pic of the largest one I ever heard of.
http://photography.nationalgeographi...otography.html

Don

You all seem to forget - the wife/assistant sticks the match in while you have your head under the old fire proof cloth as you look through your lens....:) :) I don't know you young uns with your digi whatsits........:D

Digi whatsits? No wonder you don't know what they are called given you have a D3! Or is it a touch of the seniles coming on? Do tell us which! :D