Yes Rudra, Aperture 1.5 is down to £220 here (more tax), rumour says 1.6 in the offing, but I need newer computer for even trial version and have just spent n years frivolity money on 80-400 lens. Anyone wanting to see if they can do the masking Clive describes in Aperture??

Mike: does PSE6 have curves, essential to my mind? - and then its back to square 1, if you are going to end up with CS3, might as well start there as I assume all the menus and everything else possible is different even if most of the same stuff is included? - or has there been the longed for re-write and a bit of consistency?

I really am NOT trying to say there is an 'all-things-to-all-men' alternative, but am trying to explore if there are alternatives that will take keen learners most of the way faster and cheaper...and maybe in one or two areas even further.

What are these super costs of Aperture? Amazon sells it for £149 and on ebay you can get it for £70. If it is an older copy it automatically updates to the latest version via Software update.

Rudra

As I understand it in camera sharpening only applies if you are shooting JPGs - in which case you would probably want a little sharpening applied. RAW files always look a little soft 'straight out of the camera'.

At the conversion from RAW stage I apply what ever noise reduction setting I feel are appropriate (in lightroom I have a set of standard ISO dependenant settings that are applied automatically when my RAW files are imported.

However I apply zero sharpening at the time of converting from RAW (which is probably why the colour original image I posted of Victoria looked soft). I will then apply any retouching to lines, wrinkles, spots etc, brightening of eyes, darkening of lips etc.

The final step before printing is then to apply sharpening either via smart sharpen (CS2/3) or unsharp mask. In either case I do this on a separate layer so that I can mask off any areas I do not want to sharpen (eg skin tones) and then also fade the opacity until I have the degree of sharpening I want. (In the case of Victoria, with hindsite it is perhaps a tad oversharpened in some areas but this was down sampled for the web from a file prepared for printing A4 - thats my excuse & I'm sticking to it ;) )

I'm following the thread with interest. Masterclass from Clive a bonus. :) :)

I think Chris's point is very valid particularly for anyone on a limited budget. What gives best bang for your bucks is then the most important question.

Don

Yes, I follow the same process in CS2.

Andy, I see you are right and Aperture is available much cheaper inc 'buy now' UK source £85. Just I would need a new computer to go with it. Also, what does it actually DO? How about asking Clive for his RAW as I did and doing a comparative for us? Clive & I are also tentatively plotting a software workshop, would you be interested in coming Brumwards to do the honours with Aperture?

On sharpening in-camera, I assume all decent cameras have settings within (as 350D & D80) so that you can shoot with your normal/preferred settings of sharpness, saturation, contrast and only need to touch them during RAW conversion if it is a different shot from the usual.

Hi Chris, I would be very interested in the workshop, but short of bringing my G5 dual core desktop with me it might be difficult. My laptop is an old Titanium Powerbook which will not run Aperture. But let me have a think and I might be able to lay my hands on a more up to date Laptop. If Clive would send me the RAW file in question I'll show you what Aperture can do. As Don says this is becoming a very interesting thread.

For sharpening, I use a two-layer method with USM or use high pass filter and layer blending mode. Both methods give similar results, better than USM alone, but rely on layers, for which I understand requires PS.

Elements 5 does not have curves. However, I find shadows/highlights together with layer blending modes gives results that I find quite acceptable.

Andy, Chris, etc

I'd be more than happy to come on a workshop. Andy, I have a pretty good laptop you could use and I could arrange to come over then go down together.

Thoughts?

Derek - Here are the minimum system requirements - can you meet them?
Minimum system requirements

One of the following Macintosh computers: Mac Pro; Power Mac G5 with 1.6GHz or faster PowerPC G5 processor; MacBook Pro; MacBook; 15- or 17-inch PowerBook G4 with 1.25GHz or faster PowerPC G4 processor; Mac mini with Intel Core Solo or Intel Core Duo processor; iMac with 1.8GHz or faster PowerPC G5 or Intel Core Duo processor
1GB of RAM (2GB required for Mac Pro)
5GB of disk space for application, sample projects, and tutorial
DVD drive for installation
Mac OS X v10.4.8