Time to stop when you get frustrated Duncan.

You already have a couple of really sucessful shots in the gallery, Corkscrew and Rollieflex. So don't be disheartened, it can be quite tricky when you have used flash for a bit like me, never mind when you are starting out.

You have a limited amount of light so you have to accept that. A bit of sucess is what you need, to inspire when experimenting with flash.

If I may make a suggestion or two with that in mind.

I would take this from the other side as that will put the camera model number in focus, also the top plate controls are on that side as only the rewind knob on the right hand side, so a bit of soft focus less of a problem. Also the pc socket showing signs of wear. ( this is when NFB thinks I get picky ).

In positioning the camera see if you can get a reflection in the lens from a source other than flash as that is one thing less to worry about. Reflection through a window, or as you did with the Rollieflex, Just adjust the exposure time down to allow it to record. You may need an assistant as I would suggest a flash angled down about 60 deg or more to catch the prism and top plate. If the right hand side is going to be out of focus do not worry too much about lighting it. A bit of flash fall off could be quite convenient. As you have two flash guns but probably no diffuser like me, use the second flash, with power turned down to push a bit of light into the front.

Alternate if you can try a flash from above - slightly behind and a reflector in front to pick up a bit of the light and throw it back on the subject. I have used a similar effect in post 32 of this thread. A bit of glancing light, quite a lot missing the camera altogether but providing sufficient for reflector to bounce back. A case of letting shadows work for you.

Best of luck when next you attempt this. I hope this will be of some help. Nice to see the K1000, a simple SLR built like a tank, and a favourite with most colledges and students of photography.

Don

Leif,

Two absolutely superb examples of lighting. You have the angles just right for the lens elements, and nice soft shadows.

Any more like this and perhaps we should ask the Mods for the thread to be renamed ' Artificial Lighting - Something for Dull Days. '

Don

Thanks for the tips Don, very useful. I took some more of the K1000 using your advice. This was taken with the flash above and behind with a reflector (bit of tin foil) to bounce some light back. I struggled to get an interesting reflection in the lens whilst maintaining a viewpoint that showed off the design of the camera.

However, whilst messing about trying to get an interesting reflection, I had an idea for the Rolleiflex. Remembering your nikon pic of the flowers with the prism housing taken off, I did a picture of the Rollei with the light path in reverse. This is taken with one flash pointing straight down to pass light through the viewfinder lens and the other flash filling in the front face (via a reflector). The idea needs a bit more work I think, it's a bit "black on black" at the moment, but it was an interesting experiment.

Duncan.

Duncan,

I hope you don't mind but I have had a bit of a play with your K1000 shot. Jake ( my four footed shadow ) was present for all of mine so I needed something different to occupy the brain.

I have increased the exposure in CS, done a bit of spotting and other little bits of tidying up, ( Christine type stuff - A bit of spot the difference. ) and increased the area at the top. I am really quite pleased with the result, but as it is your pic I hope you are too. I did have to give additional compression to get to this file size.

The Rollei is an interesting idea. Do you have a 2 1/4 square trannie that you can lay on the foussing screen ? That should project coloured, rather than white light onto the lens.

Looking at both pictures the exposures both need upping. The advantage of using RAW here, would be that you can increase exposure of the RAW file while retaining the DOF that your current aperture is giving. Also well worth the effort is to get the verticals right at the taking time. I have been looking at image degradation on correcting this in post processing, and it does result in a softening of the whole image.

Don

Duncan: I hope you don't feel offended if I join in too. I applied a contrast mask to the image to lighten the shadows and soften the highlights.

Leif

In my opinion adjusting the image in the 'darkroom' is cheating a little. I thought I would try a camera of my own, except I have a silver compact apart from my SLR.

I thought I would start with lighting above but from the front (as was easier:) )to illuminate the front face and top. Using single flash through a large diffuser resulted in the image being flat and I wanted to put some life into the shot. Ideally life would come from shine from the brushed aluminium body and lens. I experimented with a second flash aimed direct through a stofen diffuser, this created the shine I was looking for but did put anything into the lens. I figured it was impossible to put something into the lens as this camera is a compact and has a separate viewfinder and the lens has so path through it.

Pic 1 - Scene
Pic 2 - Scene with diffuser
Pic 3 - Result single flash diffused
Pic 4 - Result two flashes second a little overcooked
Pic 5 - Final result.

Of course I needed the compact to take the scene photos so the subject has been replaced with my mobile phone.

Edit:- Using Nikon i-TTL the primary flash unit was set to +0.7EV and the secondary to provide shine was set to -3.0EV through a stofen diffuser losing a further one stop. A small amount to light is all that was required to finish the photo.

Its a lens life...
 

Moving on from the compact, I found an Olympus XA, it was given to me when I was 10 but never really understood the thing. I am working on shooting the pair, sort of a new and old theme.

I am quite happy with this so far using an identical setup as above but with AP diffuser softening the light from second flash to eliminate unwanted shine on black XA now..... if I could just get some light into the lens of the XA and C50!

Stephen,

I have all 3 on my pc now and in your pic with the XA you have managed to get more life in the lens. It is all about light reflecting off the front element. There will be some darkening depending on the coating colour ( ie brown - dark. blue or green - light. )

You have got the Olympus pair shot just right. Nice lighting and a complementary background.

Something that has been done for years. All a question of degree. Spotting was removing dust specks on the print using coloured dye. Odd little deffects could with experience ligitimately be sorted out.

On your Olympus pair the XA lens would benefit from removal of the hot spots on the lens. The white hot spot particularly. These are only a reflection from a flash gun and in my opinion can be legitimately removed without it becoming a digitally manipulated image.

My use of it on Duncans pic was really to clean the camera up. The exception being the removal of the flash shoe shadow to illustrate how I would have done it.

Now I will go back to your gallery pics for futher comment. :)

Don

Don, Leif,

No worries at all regarding your edits. On balance, I think I prefer Don's tweaks. Removing the shadow from the hotshoe was something I had considered doing in post-processing but I too share Stephen's feelings that it's "cheating" in some way. I'll get over it in time.

I think I'll try a pic of the K1000 fitted with the *istDS lens, taken with the 50mm prime off the K1000 next!

Duncan,

If you are able to put a reflector ( A4 sheet of paper ) just out of frame, see attached pic, that should do the trick.

Most of my other efforts were cleaning the camera and removing dust specs. Flash will really highlight these and a lot of post processing time can be saved by a good clean and then an occasional blow with a lens puffer during the shoot. You would be amazed just how many tiny specs of dust can land during a shoot.

Each of these WILL show up on the final image.

Prediction of another wet day :D

Don

An idea for a self supporting reflector.

Materials required. Stiff garden wire 2mm dia, A4 plain paper, sticky tape.

A bit of white art card would be better as it would last longer and be stiffer than paper.

Don

I am thinking tin foil wrapped around cardboard as a better material for a refelector but would it make lighting too harsh, whitepaper may also diffuse?

Hi guys
I've been following this very interesting thread over the last 2 weeks or so,
And as soon as I get my slave unit I will have a go at some subtle flash shots.
I need ask a question, what do you think the best material to use for diffusing the flash?
Lello

You'll notice that before this thread my flash technique was appalling:o During the course I have used paper towels (kitchen roll) but fears of burning the flash unit stopped that although one my best photos used a paper towel diffuser. I next used small 12" lastolite type diffusers that were free in Amateur photographer, these are made of nylon sheet similar to lightweight waterproof coats. The small diffusers are great but sometimes not large enough. I have now invested in a medium/large 38" lastolite, also made of nylon sheet and works best of all because of its size. Don's large lastolite has a cotton based cloth as the diffuser material rather than a nylon polymer. Providing the material spreads light out and evenly then there will be little difference in the end result.

Thanks for the info, I will let you know how I get on.
Lello

Lens reflections
 

Following a discussion with NFB on lens reflections, I have taken a series of pics as the best way to explain it.

Essentially it is down to angles. The key one being the taking lens toward the camera subject. In the three lens composite you can see that too sharp an angle will produce no reflection from the coating and will appear as crystal. The demarkation line is quite abrupt. These appear on the left hand lens in each case. This effect is very visible in an SLR viewfinder. Flash will not change it.

All of the pictures were taken with the camera in a fixed position and light provided by a single diffused flash positioned in front of the centre lens, square on 2 feet away.

Lenses were moved around to show that coating colours have different colours depending on angle.

Two further comments.
The white spots on the lens top right are reflections from a camera body positioned behind the centre lens.
On the middle row, mirror lock up and viewfinder blind were used to show that light through the viewfinder has no effect.

Don

Still life and attention to detail
 

As a number are having a go at taking pics of old camera's I thought that it would be worth mentioning attention to detail.

I have taken a picture of the F2, as a just drop it on a background and take a picture .... job done. Faults with this technique are illustrated. I then cleaned the camera, lens and background and did a proper job of taking a picture.

Don

Tin foil is certainly gives a harder reflection than that from a white surface. On shiney objects it can create specular highlights that burn out easily.

Don

Have to say Don, whilst the second pic may be more "correct", I much prefer the overall composition of the first one.

Does anyone have suggestions for suitable background material, both white and black? Fabric is okay but can get dirty, so I would have thought that some sort of flexible plastic sheeting that can be wiped clean would be ideal. I'm not sure if matt or gloss is better. I see that Speed Graphic and others sell portable backgrounds but they cost a fortune for something that must be cheap to knock together. Thus far I've used sheets of paper but that's only suitable for small objects. Using multiple sheets of paper causes shadows where the sheets overlap.

Regarding diffusers, I also use Lastolites. I've got numerous ones, though the smallest are poorly made as the metal rim soon cuts through the surrounding fabric. They are useful for outdoor photography too.

Leif

Leif,

How large are the subjects you are considering ?

I have two large graduated backgrounds that are washable silk finish plastic. They are years old so no idea of current cost. NFB may be able to advise. I also use a piece of black velvet - very handy for absobing light. I have also used a multitude of things including an off cut of steel sheet, it depends on the subject. My feeling is that any background material should not be glossy but silk or matt. Handicraft shops generally sell a reasonable range of paper/card materials that may be suitable up to A3 size.

Don

For work in the studio, esp using flash, I have found that Black Colorama roll can be problamatical, as it often comes out grey unless you mask it from the flash guns. The best stuff I have found is black velvet, bought from a fabric shop. Its relatively cheap, but it really does absorb the light and remains black. For white, I have always used Artic White Colorama, with plenty of light put on it, at least 1/2 stop higher or more than the subject, you always get it white, though sometimes a little spotting is needed

For diffusers, a cheap option can be to use large sheets of tracing paper, maybe more than one layer sometimes.

Just hope the Mrs doesn't read this
 

The background for my recent K1000 pics, and also my earlier corkscrew pics is actually a pair of my wife's trousers. :o I find keeping the hanger on them allows the hook of the hanger to be held up by a table-top tripod to create a nice sweeping backdrop.

Before you go spending any cash, have a look at things you already have.

First try!!
 

Hi Guys
This is my first attempt at still life photography using on camera flash, slave flash, diffusers, Using what I've learned on this excellent thread.
What do you think (I'm not sure I've got it quite right yet) I'm waiting for a new slave unit with swivel head to see if bouncing flash will improve the technique.
Any comments on if or where I've gone wrong would be appreciated
Thanks:)
Lello

Lello,

For a first effort this is amazing - incredible, what can I say. :cool:

It is so good I can only be supercritical and find the only things really wrong, and that is not much.

I have marked up a copy of your image with these.

I look forward to seeing more of your work. A welcome participant in this thread.

Don

Lello,

I just checked and its not in the gallery !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don

Hi Don
It's now in the gallery, Thank very much for your kind words, Maybe I'm being over critical on myself, It's just yours and Stephen's shots look so much better than mine.
I will have to keen on trying now you have given me some confidence.
Watch this space
Lello

By the way don, That dust was Bahamian sand :) Which was not supposed to be there!!

Lello,

I think you probably are being too critical. I would not have dared to post my first, second or third shot.

Don

Yes Don (Teacher :) ) but don't forget I had the advantage of reading this thread (that you started) that helped me to get to where I am today, so thanks again for this thread.

Lello,

I will now settle back and wait for your next picture. You have now set yourself a standard. :)

Don

:D I see you have a second apprentice Don :rolleyes:

The graduated background are produced by Colorama, approx size 1.2 x 1.8m. I sourced one for £50 +VAT. They are white on the back and the white backdrop photos show the colorama in reverse. My black background is provided by a roll of black freise paper (£5ish) from office world, approx size 0.8m x 15m.

I have been in search of a piece of black velvet but to no avail, even employed mumsey in the search!

Thanks for the background suggestions. I will look into them, with the exception of employing 'mumsey'. :)

Stephen,

May I suggest the dress material department of a large Deptment Store eg John Lewis, or a haberdashers.

Don

I would agree, though I seem to remember getting mine from the local market. It doesn't have to be the best quality, just a full width piece and long enough to use as a portrait backdrop. If thats to be a potential use that is. This stuff really does absorb all the light you would normally throw at your subject

Stephen,

I never thought of the market .... :o

Don

Behind the scenes of 35mm film ' Muscle '
 

Following comments in the Gallery I thought I would post a behind the scenes.

This picture was taken to see how the new camera handled flash lighting.

Sounds an odd statement but the tests so far have shown up new considerations to be taken into account.

Something I had not paid much attention to before studying for my upgrade path was ' diffraction limits ', and ' airy disks '. My tests yesterday showed that with a combination of my ' less than top grade glass ' and the effect of diffraction, f13 would be the minimum aperture that I can set on my 28-105mm lens. Beyond that and images really start to loose bite. ( D2X diffraction limit is f8 ). I have yet to try my old Macro 55mm out to see if it fares any better beyond f13.

As these were tests, the camera was chosen as a subject as it has sharp detail and could be positioned for a realisitc challenge for control of dof within the limits of an aperture of f13. The image has a slight crop of the bottom and a bit off the top and was taken at a focal length of 85mm at a distance of 1 metre.

Shed loads of resolution does have downsides other than the diffraction limit. 100% crop shows the prism is not as pretty a sight as one would like. Thorough cleaning before a shoot is now more essential than ever as shown by the area around the shutter collar.

Attatched is a behind the scenes shot and a graphic to explain the setup, the final picture and the 100% crop.

Don

In the toy shop this morning with James I saw something 'I' liked and thought would be good to photograph.

A small toy helicopter I indented to show rotor blur. Using flash of course to give a zip of life.

During initial setup I noticed I could not really get the rotors blurred so it seemed on the LCD screen. I had to use LCD screen of camera now my personal laptop failed.

No.1 below shows initial setup with undiffused flash (I expected to remove shadows using diffusion at a later stage) experimentation at this stage was with rotor blur and shutter speed. I went down and down in speed still stuck rotor!! - Then I thought about it! Flash occurs over a tiny period of time freezing the rotor and the remaining exposure time would record the blur but nowhere as strong as the initial burst of flash light.

I had to use a no-flash setup to obtain the desired picture. Exposure over approx 1/5 I caught it. (No.2)

Using diffused flash decided to capture MY new toy without moving rotors (No.3)

I'll post No.2 in my gallery.

All good fun .

# 2 undoubtedly gets my vote. The only question now is how to increase the opacity of moving rotors.