Thats instantly taken years off me Andy .............. I think. :D :D :D

Don

I promise this will be my last water filled balloon shot :)
Different technique, Black board placed in the bath D300 looking down, sound trigger very close (there wasn't much sound to trigger flash) dropped balloon.

Awesome, this is sooo good!

Wow!, that is fantastic, no more I can say its awesome.

Well done Lello.
This shot and others in your gallery suggest I need to get back to taking pics. :)

Don

Great shot Lello - a fine reward for your patience and perseverance and thanks for taking us along on the journey.

Its NOT over yet Andy. :D :D :D

Messy idea for a contact trigger job.

Don

Thanks Don - I hoped it wasn't - I now have air rifle set up in cellar and am integrating the IR trigger which so far is proving tricky.

Andy,
I guess an IR trigger has got to be very sensitive to register movement of something as small and fast as a pellet. May be worth starting by dropping a larger target ie grape through the beam to get some idea first. This gives the beam a slow large target to focus on. Objects can then be reduced in size so you can determine the sensitivity limits of the IR trigger.

My idea does not involve a pellet gun but I think would have been able to work on Lello's balloon as that could have been by impact trigger.

If the Vivitars fastest speed 1/30,000 is not fast enough I will have to do a job on the SC-17 contacts so I can get up to the 1/64,000 best with the SB80-DX.

I got a bit to fancy for my own good last time I tried this, so going to try something a lot easier this time. :rolleyes: :)

Don

First try at this one.

I'll clean up the mess then try to extend the delay a bit. :rolleyes:

Don

Or just hit it harder :rolleyes:

This thread just keeps getting better and better.

Brilliant Don, I was trying to find something else to use the trigger on!!
Nicely thought out (I take it this was only the first bulb?)
I assume you are going to wait for another household bulb to blow to try again?

Lello,
Provided you do not get bounce this works first time. So a test for exposure then hit the bulb.

I have just posted the latest in the gallery ( only had 2 bulbs ). ;) But here it is along with details of the trigger.

Well I added another layer of card but with minimal impact on slowing down the trigger point.

I have attatched a pic of the trigger which comprises three 6" x 4" mattes stacked and foil attatched to top and bottom. Budgie on my finger as I type this so I will do a graphic of the flashgun terminal tomorrow. :D

Trigger was taped to a table and covered with a cloth and the bulb placed on top.

For the exposure the camera was set to 2 secs to allow sufficient time to trigger it and hit the bulb with the hammer. Exposure was in a darkened room and so is controlled by the duration of the flash. In this case 1/30,000 sec.

Don

Don you seem to have a lot of light, Did you use only one flash?
Can you post the flash setup.
Lello

Lello,

I did use a seperate flash to light the background only, tripped by a slave. As this had a burst duration of only 1/10,000 sec it was important that no light spill from it touched the subject.

I will do a sketch and post.

Don

OK Lello as requested the light set up.

I did not mention the Metz in the kit used in the gallery as it could be confusing. The key thing with this stuff being flash duration. The Vivitar is able to get to 1/30,000 so good for freezing motion. The Metz best is 1/10,000 sec way to slow. Position of the lights had to take account of those speeds. If the Metz had lit the bulb then its speed would not have been suffucient to freeze motion.

Stray light would have created this effect - Vivitar stops motion but Metz does not, so anything the Metz exposed would be blurred.

I hope that makes sense. :)

Don

For anyone wanting to try this on the cheap with a foil trigger the attatched graphic explains how to convert your standard flash lead to connect to the foil trigger. Remember the flash is NOT connected to the camera.

I have used crocadile clips to terminate my extensions. Well I had them and it makes setting up a lot easier. They are not absolutly necessary but definately make life easier.
Remember in all this that if you have the flash power on and you touch both ends of the circuit you WILL get a tingle. The higher the trigger voltage of the flashgun, the greater the tingle.

In a DIY sense you need a roll of pvc insulating tape, 4 croc clips and about a metre of electric flex cable.
For the trigger I bought a total of four 6"x4" photo mattes for £3 and nicked a bit of foil off Stevies roll in the kitchen. :D

Don

Very well explained Don, thanks.

Thanks for the explanation Don, I'm waiting for my local camera shop to get me a remote trigger flash, (about £5.00) So I can have my second flash triggered by the first flash triggered by the sound trigger, If you know what I mean :D :D

Question Lello,

Out of interest before you produce yet another stunner, what is your other flash ?

Don

I mentioned to you a while back, A YinYan, I got it when I had my Pana
FZ30, When I was looking for a low voltage unit. But it hasn't got a PC sync socket, so I use a remote slave attached that has got a PC sync and a light sensor.

I guess anyone trying high speed pics has a go at the splash. So todays mission was to see if it could be done with a variation of the contact trigger.

For the first attempt I thought to use the liquid as part of the circuit. Despite making contact through a meter it failed to trigger the flash. Electrical boffins will know why that is.

A bit of a think and I decided on a floating trigger using a bit of foil. The idea being that anything dropped into the liquid would create a wave. The foil would ride the crest of the wave and so make contact with the fixed terminal. This works fine everytime so long as the top of the foil is dry along with the fixed contact. Any wetness here and it will fail to trigger the flash.

Water was put in the bowl up to 10mm from the top. The trigger was then positioned before adding the remaining. The foil floats well enough so it is quite easy to raise the water level and float the foil up to give a gap of around 1mm. This spacing is dependant on how large an object you intend to drop since it must be less that the wave that will be generated. 1mm is fine for an ice cube but for something smaller that and gap would need to be smaller and or the trigger placed closer to the impact point.

Provided the contacts are dry and a suitable gap is set this is guaranteed to work every time. My only failures were through forgeting to connect the flash :o , not topping up the water after that failure :rolleyes: , and two more before I realised the significance of wet contacts. So 6 frames were taken to get the gallery pic and the full frame posted here.

Attatched is a pic of the floating trigger, a full frame showng the contacts, and a behind the scenes shot.

Don

PS : As the wave rebounds from the container side it will trigger the flash again as the foil rides the wave, so an assistant to cover the lens with black card directly the first flash burst is over is advisable if you are using a long exposure like me at 2 secs. 2 secs chosen for trigger the camera and drop the ice cube.

Very Well thought out Don, Thank god for tin foil :) Very good to get that shot after only six attempts

:D :D Always a challenge to do things on the cheap.

No problem once you have worked out a reasonable gap between the contacts for the effect you want. Larger the gap within the boundarys of the wave height the greater the delay. Trigger is guaranteed to trip the flash.

Two more from yesterday. I started by testing with a Trebor mint dropped into a glass. This was when I discovered that although water conducts electricity it is not good enough to trigger the flash. Staying with the glass I then tried the foil float. Problem for me was trying to get the contact gap right in the confines of a glass. Eyes are not what they were. So I moved onto a larger bowl.

Pic 2 is the result of too greater contact gap, so too great a delay. This was because I did not top up the water from a previous failed attempt when I forgot to connect one of the flash terminals. You can see the waves created by the cube though.

Don

A bit about my gallery Oops!!! shot.
 

A harder job today. It took all afternoon to make up the sequence even though I only did 8 drops. A couple missed the trigger altogether. Not so easy doing this in a dark room.

The first job was to remove some screws from the camera so it would break apart on impact.
For each drop the camera was fully assembled minus the screws I had removed. So for each drop the camera had to be re-assembled, and the top foil sheet from the trigger replaced. In order to try and change the delay, tension on the top foil was increased from a bit slack to drum tight.

The trigger was the same impact job as in 'Lights Out'. Lighting was also the same with the addition of a reflector on each side.

To increase dof ISO was upped from 200 used for the light bulb to 400 allowing for an aperture of f8.

Link to the shot http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...6&limit=recent

Don

Very well thought out Don, You seem to be getting nice lighting (but of course you the lighting man :)) I can't wait for my remote slave trigger, and some sort of idea on what to use the sound trigger on :( You keep coming up with such good ideas.

Lello,

Light bulb would be great with a sound trigger as you could set a far longer delay than I can at the moment, although trials will continue when I get the next dead one. So if you use a hammer then try a delay to give the head half way through the bulb. Now that would look impressive.

I will have to think about sound trigger shot possibilities, as in my mind I have been thinking impact only as sound is not an issue.

A lot that I have seen on the net involves the subject breaking light beams to trigger the flash. No cash for that kit but I am not detered. I will find another route that does not cost. For me solving that is all part of the challenge. :)

Don

Hi Don I will try and buy the remote flash sensor over the weekend (if the shop have managed to get some in) then I will try some more shots using the sound trigger and bulb (I might try bulb hitting the ground).
By the way I have been given about 5 used disposable cameras, I might see if I can use the flash's out of them (some how wiring them together with a battery) to make some sort of ring flash :) any ideas on how to get them to fire? maybe using the same remote flash trigger unit?

Lello,
I will have a look to see if anyone has posted a pic of an open disposable camera on the net. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING if you dismantle one to get at the flash is to earth out the capacitor. Even a disposable with its tiny flash could give you a serious belt. :eek:

Whatever you try with the bulb consistancy is the thing. So if it is a drop, then you need to arrange some sort of height marker to ensure that. On my Oops shot the final frame was dropped from a bit higher than the others which I am sure contributed to the extra bounce. If you look at my bulb shot and then imagine the hammer at half way through the bulb then you would probably be talking a few milliseconds.

I am also looking at a new shot but I think I am going to have to make up a trigger specially for it. :)

Don

Lello,

Check out step 3 in this link. It shows the circuit board from a disposable camera.

Read what the guy says in step 2.
http://www.instructables.com/id/EEUVEHPCTPEP286A78/

Take a pic of one of yours as you dismantle and post ( nothing too fancy ). Bound to be a lot clearer than those in the link.

Don

Thanks for the link Don, I left the camera's at work:(, But I might have time to pop in tomorrow am (Saturday) and pick them up.
Will post some photos of the insides as soon as I can.

The remote sensor will be the way to go as far as triggering them. As the trigger voltage of these could be quite high it will be far safer if they are not connected direct to the camera.

Your pop up would activate the trigger. When at your dealer it would be worth getting a Cokin filter holder adaptor ring of suitable thread size for your lens. This could then be glued to whatever surface you intend to mount your 5 mini flashes to.

If I was doing this then from a craft shop I would get a sheet of K & S aluminium. These are about 4" x 9". Cut a centre hole and araldite the Cokin ring to that. You can then temporary mount the litte flashes with insulating/masking tape to work out the best layout.

Mind you living out in the sticks K&S alum is about the only stiff material I could get. If you are near a Maplins then a bit of circuit board would be even better. :)

Don

Info on Anyone for Tennis
 

As this was to be done using a contact trigger the first job was to make a contact that could be adjusted for height. I could have gone mad and made up a fancy pivot and counterbalance arrangement as in the sketch, but I was keen to take the pic so opted for a cobbled together job instead once this was done. A bit of copper pipe bent round a bit of drilled brass with electrical blocks attached with steel rods to hold the counterweights, running on a rod and held in position with two more connector blocks. The washers are for fine balance as the cream was added.

Dropping the strawberry on target in near darkness was a bit of a challenge. 2 misses, 3 with poor placement and 2 with strobing flash that Stevie was not fast enough to react to were taken before getting this one. So it was very much a joint effort.

Attatched is a pic of the trigger, and a crop of the drop from the final pic.

Tomorrow I will do a graphic and post the lighting plan.

Don

PS : For Foxy, Your black velvet has just come out of the washing machine. :D :D

PPS : Before I am asked I just measured the drop height, and the strawberry was dropped from a height of 18 inches.

Excellent shot Don (you clever boy) The contrast between the red Strawberry and the white milk make this for me, and the fact that I know how hard it to get a shot like this.

Hi Don here a 2 photos of the dismantled disposable cameras, showing the front and the back of the circuit board (batteries removed) I worked out that you get a nasty shock if you touch a certain part without discharging the capacitor:(
Yes I know you warned me but I'm naturally curious:)
The round disc you see on the front, is a switch which has to pressed once to charge unit (that may cause a little problem) then by shorting out the 2 protruding wires the flash works. So, first I need to find a way round the switch, once that sorted then I can start wiring together and sorting
out a battery pack.
Will keep you informed

Here are two shot using the Don method. Still need to sort out the delay a bit more, (only had 1 bulb to play with)

Lello,

You are crazier than me. :eek:

For power supply will the thought in the attached work ?

Don

Going through the Christmas decs now. :rolleyes: What will Tina say. :)

Perhaps you need to have a work collection for dead bulbs. To get yourself in some low cost practice with the sound trigger in the mean time, see if you can get some nuts in their shells. Wrong time of year but a possibility from a health food shop.

Ideally for the bulb you need a bigger hammer or even an axe for dramatic impact. :D

Don

Attatched is the lighting plan for the strawberry drop. Once again the key to positioning the flash is Flash Burst Duration and NOT light output.
Positioning of the Metz may seem a bit strange as its main output is towards the black velvet. Its position was to allow spill light to catch the bottle only, and the black velvet absorbed the bulk of its output. Strawberry being totally lit by the Vivitar.

As both flashguns were on minimum power light balance was by moving the flash units relative to the subject.

The black flag was to limit possibilities of flare from the Vivitar with the Stofen diffuser as the end of the flash unit was just out of frame.

Don