Very interesting subject FoxyBob.

You are right about flash duration probably 1/10000 sec here.

I know you will like this ....... we need a few tech details of rotor operation. Pics suggest it is hand powered. Therefore speed will be initially high and decreasing. Also difference between winding main rotor and tail rotor.

I think here you used front curtain sync. In this mode the flash will fire immediately the front curtain is open. For the purpose here lets assume a duration of 1/10,000 sec. So if exposure was say 1/60 sec it will be at least 1/59 sec before second curtain moves. During this time exposure is affected by ambient light.

If rear curtain sync is used, situation is reversed. Initial exposure is ambient and immediately before the rear curtain closes flash will be triggered.

The problem if it is hand powered is trying to have the main rotor slowing sufficiently before starting the tail rotor.

BTW very good natural light shot but rotors a bit fast for good prop blurr. :)

Don

We had this question on an aviation forum and there are so many different ways. Colour of the prop, speed, background colour, painting the tips etc.

Behind the scenes of Lathe Action 3
 

This image follows on from my gallery image Lathe Action 2 where I used rear curtain flash sync to partially freeze chuck motion.

In this case flash was only used for that purpose, and only impacted on the overall exposure by a small amount, the main lighting being the workshop lights. Exposure was 1.3 secs at ISO200 at f16. Flash on manual at 1/2 power.

Determining the best lathe speed was a bit of trial and error over the range 210, 300, 420 and 600rpm. The greatest sucess rate was at 420rpm. At slower speeds motion was frozen too sharply. At 600 rpm the freeze was less distinct.

I have attached a composite of the two images that show this technique in action. My feeling is that if this technique is used to reinforce the sense of motion, it works best at an angle rather than straight on. Chuck on the left hand shot is spinning at 300rpm whereas on the right it is 420rpm.

An interesting experiment.

I attach a pic of the cluttered bench layout to give some idea of the limits for composition and lighting.
The tripod ( Benbo ) is strapped down to an ammunition tin full of steel bar ends for stability. Which is seriously heavy as I can only just pick it up.

SB80 flash ( pic attached ) is mounted to my light stand on part of Foxy's " swiss army knife" flash bracket, the current workshop project. Pic of the work in progress bracket as of Thursday evening is in my gallery.

Don

Thanks for showing this I'm following with interest

Ian

A day with Don Hoey to take receipt of the amazing flash adaptor shown being constructed above and photographing Nikon's finest and to learn more about flash photography. I am sure many here are in awe of the camera body shots that Don seems to produce with effortless ease. Every time I look at one I think brilliant, simply brilliant - I wish I could do that with the same quality. Yesterday I did just that, in the gallery is my effort supervised by Don. Below is its method and thoughts during its production.

Firstly the two camera bodies are not simply placed on a table then photographed. Almost an hour was spent placing, angling, considering and moving around with a camera and lens looking for that WOW shot. While considering a WOW position I noticed that the Nikon legend on the rear camera was reflecting on the upper LCD display of the front camera. This decided composition; although I had been found by chance I would never found it if I did not sample various positions and angles to photograph using different lenses. Once composition had been decided both cameras went for a good clean and so they were perfect ready for the photo.

Flash lights are added step by step, first is the main light above and left of the subject to generally light the subject using flash adaptor and brolly using shoot through technique. Part of the criteria was to use only my equipment and it was noticed that flash output was a little low by halving the distance doubled the light to subject and adding a second brolly to collect wasted light from the shoot through brolly solved the problem. The main light is now originating from a quasi-softbox much closer to the subject. Another criterion of the day was to bring life to a lens and by placing a reflector/diffuser perpendicular to the front lens element that element approx 15º from camera lens axis did the trick this also bounced light back to the subject. Adding a second flash behind this reflector/diffuser at high power boosted the artefact in the lens element. Lens artefacts depend also on the lens itself the lens photographed is a 17-35mm wide angle which has a large front flat element and bulbous element behind that so little light reflected through it. This lens was selected as it was fairly short and suited the cosmetics of the D2 series cameras in the subject.

The photo took nearly five hours to produce from start to end. All it needs is a Nikon ‘Heart of the image’ slogan and it would look at home in a Nikon dealership.

Photo here...
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...hp?photo=10599

Now armed with a piece of black velvet I have had another attempt at product photography using skills and tips learned with Don Hoey in the reply above.

Setup
I spend nearly an hour setting the scene looking at different angles and compositions. As my velvet was just from the shop it needed cleaning and I found a handy tool shown in pic (1). This tool costs approx £3 from Sainsbury’s sewing isle and very handy for cleaning velvet before the shutter has been released, we have this tool as our cat likes to drop fur everywhere especially clothing. I have taken again to using Nikon Camera control as an easy way of reviewing images on a laptop rather than using the camera rear display or legwork (back to desktop PC). Composition was settled but only allowed approx 30cm working distance pic (2), this limited depth of view so some compromises had to be made. The 17-35 f2.8 I own has a minimum focus distance of around 25cm so I was forced to use this lens at 35mm for the picture.

Lighting
Over the course of this week I came up with a cunning plan to create a softbox using available equipment and with the brolly in shoot through (see above replies) I simply put the silver backing on the brolly in reverse to it reflects any lost light back to the subject pic (3). The brolly soft box as I shall refer it to allows only one light to be used as I needed another light to push life into the lenses of the CCTV cameras. Using camera control flash light and aperture compromise were set and I was happy with pic, stage 2 was to put life into lenses. Using ¼ power manual mode from a second flash unit I added some interest in the lenses but as they are convex aspherical lenses classic ‘life’ could not be put on to them even at full power from second flash. Anymore than ¼ power the overall exposure was affected to much. The amount of interest in the lenses is minimal but this is the nature of the lens not photography technique as the cause.

Please note for setup photographs various items were brought closer and were not positioned as photographed here.

Larger photo can be viewed in the gallery.
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...6&limit=recent

Foxy Bob,

With a working distance of just 30cm then I am quite amazed at the zone of sharpness you have achieved. Your idea with the reflective part of the brolly ie making a softbox is excellent. As we found when adding a silver brolley behind the white one it frees up a flash unit.

Dabbling with manual flash now !!! :cool:

With this quality of pic, and dark wet days in front of us, it will soon be my turn to set a challenge. :D

Don

This is all getting very technical, black velvet reversed brollies. So I thought you may find this of interest, a nice little softbox curtesy of Maplins £13 http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?...RIES&doy=18m11

I notice with interest that Don is now dabbling with manual flash. Manual is the only way I work with flash, maybe I should become more technical and switch to ETTL.

Now the dark nights are here I've dragged most of my flash gear out, but not the soft boxes or diffusers, Still using the kitchen towelling though.

All my recent experiments have entailed back lighting using several guns, it becomes very interesting, balancing 5-6 flash heads, but it's all good fun as per example.

Harry

Great pic Harry. Always interested in your work as lighting is always top notch. :cool:

It is Foxy that is edging into using manual. I can only think in manual and found my SB80-DX instruction manual hard work so gave up on it. Only use DTTL for behind the scenes snaps. :rolleyes:

I think manual can appear quite daunting at first, so an easier starter route is ITTL, DTTL, ETTL. Once you are using a flashgun at full bore to get a correct exposure, then you are essentially in manual as metering is having no effect, and only moving the light relative to subject or upping ISO will affect exposure in auto.

The difference between us Harry, is I only have 4 flash guns and 2 slaves and 1 remote cord. Two of the flashguns are battery eaters so most of my shots are with 2 guns only. I will use one of the battery eaters only if I have to.

Foxy's kit is not very technical. Having seen the brollie, it is a 2 in 1 job. It is just that Foxy is using it in a novel way. Perhaps he will post an explanation of it.

Don

Aviation Photography....
 

I was challenged by Don Hoey to produce a digital version of his brilliant F3 shot ( http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...php?photo=6056 ) using in camera multiple exposure. The challenge was to achieve correct exposure for camera and LCD screen.

After spending considerable time with composition and main lighting I arrived at f20 1/60 ISO 400 using SB-800 at +2.0EV and SB-600 at M1/1 (full power). I imagine SB800 was also was at full power output. Main lighting and composition settled I was ready to experiment with image overlay in camera. Using spot metering on the LCD screen exposure was 1s f20 ISO400 with all curtains closed but when images were combined a small artifacts were present on LCD screen so a black flag was introduced to control any reflection onto the LCD screen of camera with either exposure.

Images below show position of brolly softbox, black flag and camera.

Full size image can be seen in our gallery following the link.
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...3&limit=recent

Nikon D2X in-camera image overlay
 

After the above I though I should explain in detail image overlay and why it was required to produce the photo 'Aviation Photography'.

Using flash the camera LCD screen would appear dim (pic1) but flash required to bring contour and shine in the camera body (pic2). LCD screen using manual exposure to produce a photo of only the screen at normal brightness allows best of both (pic3).

Image overlay in D2X allows overlay of any two NEF's (RAW) (Pic 4) The combined NEF is still in RAW format therefore can be adjusted as any RAW file. Also notice exposure can be tweaked prior to overlay.

[quote=Stephen Fox;13620]This tool costs approx £3 from Sainsbury’s sewing isle...
QUOTE]

Just a thought but for a few pence wrapping several turns of "sticky back plastic", otherswise known as Sellotape, around your hands does the same thing for a fraction of the cost - used daily by my good self on suits and black velvet jackets in the sad days when I worked in an office environment.

A quiet night in
 

I've learned much from this thread, mainly by trial and (lots of) error it has to be said. But, I think I can safely say, it's been fun. Never one to shirk a challenge, I've tried a variety of subjects over the last year, the ones made from shiny metal and glass being the most challenging.

I've spent about 2 weeks trying different flash permutations for a still-life arrangement of beer bottles. The more I tried off-camera flash, the worse it got; this wasn't helped by having large glass patio doors on one wall of the room, they reflected all sorts of stray light from the flashgun(s) into areas I didn't want it to go. Having a large mirror at the other end of the room didn't help either.

I decided to keep it simple and stop fighting the reflections from the patio doors, and instead use them to my advantage. The camera was set up in position with the glass doors behind, a single on-camera flash was used, with the head pointing up towards the ceiling. The bounce off the ceiling diffused the flash and reduced the hot-spots on the glasswork. As long as I used the self timer timer (and mirror lock-up BTW) and got away from the doors when the shutter released, then some flash was also being bounced off the glass doors behind the camera which filled in the shadows that would otherwise have been present underneath the glass.

Following Don's tips, the table was cleaned and dusted, the glass polished to remove fingerprints - they really show up big time under flash lighting. Much time was spent before pressing the button to arrange the objects in the frame, the glass was empty at this point as I wanted there to be some head on the beer in the final image. Plenty of test shots were taken with an empty glass and the results scrutinised for hot spots, stray bits in the background, dust marks, exact point of focus, etc.

What have I learned? Keep it simple has to be the biggest lesson. I don't have any diffusers, so using walls and ceilings in my main method of spreading the light. We have light, neutral colours in the dining room so it helps. Diffusing the light, by whatever means, is essential with glass or metal objects - if you don't, it won't look pretty, trust me. If you can't get it right with multiple flashes, used off-camera, go back to basics with just one. Look at what it's doing and change your position to use the effects to your advantage rather than trying to fight them.

Rather poor image of setup used is attached.

Result is here:
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...1&limit=recent

Duncan

I have just been looking up your flash, GN of 50 (metres, ISO100) :eek: My most powerful SB-800 GN of 38 (metres, ISO100)

Off camera flash is the way to go pointing down through a diffuser will have similar effect to on camera aimed upward diffusing off ceiling but much greater power as less loss so greater depth can be achieved.

A simple silver/white brolly can cost as little as £25 and can make a real difference.

Something for Santa?

I think you have hit the nail on the head with that Duncan. Work within the limitations of the kit and available location. Also the time you have spend in preparation really stands out in the final result.

I bet you really enjoyed the beer when you finally got the pic in the bag :D . An excellent job and well worth the effort you went to to get it.

Thanks for posting your behind the scenes. Very interesting.

Don

Don: Excellent article..... It is interesting you post this..... My Canon ETTL flash stopped synching for some reason..... Flash operates but all images are black..... Definately managed to get out of sync somehow..... I have an old Vivitar that I use with My F2 and Nikkormat. In fact it is the same model you use for your example..... I have been using it on my 20D's and have to say it works better than my bells and whistles Canon ever did... Takes a bit of getting used to full manual flash but I am getting better results with it so I am happy my ETTL flash STBed;) ;)......Thanks for all you do pal.....Alex

The Sigma EF500 DG ST has to be something of a bargain at £100. At the time I bought it, the fancier "Super" model was twice the price and I could not justify the extra with the amount of flash photography I do. The EF500 DG Super can now be had for £150 or, put another way, the same sort of money as the new entry level budget model SB-400 from Nikon. It is a very, very nice flash for the money, they do then in a Nikon fit too. ;) I'd be tempted if I could sell on the ST model, but this is unlikely in the Pentax fit. Ian, do you want to buy a flash? ;)

I'll have a look at brollies, the storage of it is likely to be more of a hindrance than the cost.

Thank you very much Don. I keep looking at the pic and seeing the smear on the rear left side of the glass, this is where I had to tilt the glass to pour the beer in. Being 9.2%, you'll understand that it clings to the glass rather more than most beers would. I rotated the glass in the picture so it would show as little as possible, figuring I'd be able to post process the last bits out. Trying to remove marks on images of glass? Good luck! Everything I tried made it worse. It wasn't helped by the effects of the beer, the more I tried, the more of a mess I made of it, the more I sat back and chilled out with a slug of beer, the worse it got.......... It's a vicious spiral. :D

This is how I went about the "Darkness" shot
Step 1
Find an empty table place pint on table.
Step 2
Find correct angle and distance for camera, have a drink whoooops glass should be full!! So finish pint refill start again at step 1
Step 3
Think, should glass be full or some liquid removed?
Step 4
Remove some liquid, to much!! so finish pint back to step 3
Step 5
People join table, have a drink to be sociable go back to step 1

Step whatever
By this time a fault developed on the camera it won't focus, so had a pint and a think, ah! it will focus I pressed the wrong button!! Now my arms are aching with holding the camera, no Tripod (What would Duncan do?)
3 meat pies (pork) 2 packets crisps (plain) and 1 packet of peanuts (salted)
Job sorted (peanuts for tilt)

Pressed the poppy uppy flashy thing Job Done! So had a pint and a couple of pies.
Start to finish who knows

Ian

p.s. Duncan, no thanks on the flash after this project!!!!!!!!!

Grin. :D :D :D

Ian,

Great story :D :D

Flash on yours very subtle, did not realise you had used it.

No pics of the pie or crisps then. :p

Don

Behind the scenes of Foxy's Challenge
 

An early consideration of this image was controlling the flow of beer at the critical moment. I enjoyed the contents of one tin last night after drilling a hole in the rear and taping a funnel to it. The can and funnel were attached to a support rod using part of the drilling machine guard ( just the right diameter ) and a clamp from dial indicator stand. Most of this is very visible in pic 1.

Lighting consideration. Foxy's brief was that black background must be used. To a large extent this determined the style of lighting. Light needed to be kept off the background. I actually spent more time in trying to work out how to lead from light foreground to dark background than anything else. Ians pub trips with camera came to mind here as that seemed an ideal solution. A hard light glancing past the camera and lighting the glass was chosen. Pic 1 shows the set up and the Metz 45CL3 in the background. It was aimed just in front of the centre of the glass so eliminating any light on the background. With the glass being lit from behind it was necessary to illuminate the text on the front of the glass and very front of the crisp packet. SB80-DX with Stofen diffuser was used to achieve this with power set to 1/2 to have no other real influence. Pic 2 shows the position. The beer can really needed a touch of light so the softbox was used. This was placed above but well in front, so it was actually aimed at the floor in front of the set up so the can is only struck by flash fall off.

With the lights positioning determined the next problem was shielding the lens front element from the 45CTL flash. 55mm macro lens was chosen for its deeply recessed front element but there was still a serious risk of flare. This could have been solved by a black flag but I have a bellows lenshood left from my Bronica days. I also have a set of Cokin filter adaptor rings so problem solved. Pic 3 gives an idea how effective this is.

So to the picture itself. Test exposures to confirm lighting. The glass was then filled to within 1 inch of the top. Stevie then poured beer into the funnel and I pressed the shutter at the appropriate moment. Only one take required.

Don

Thoughts behind my glasses shot
 

Firstly the glasses shots was supposed to be a little more elaborate but things did not go to plan and running out of time for the day I had to produce something.

I had planned the two glasses with a bottle of Veuve Champagne behind and I realized I needed to light the glasses directly from above the sparkle their cuts evenly. I tried a few positions of the light stand but on the dining room table right next to the subject worked best evenly lighting the rim, which I believe adds to the quality of the image. The Champagne bottle was unevenly light because of this lighting setup and I sought to light the bottle more evenly using a second flash but everything I tried induced unwanted flash artifacts on the glasses. Two back flags were used to control reflections on the glasses from other sources and I even waited until dark and shot this with internal lights off to minimize any reflections on the glasses themselves.

There we have it simple as... lighting directly from above (pic2) and two black flags either side (Pic1)

I am going to have another try at the full composition later today

I have now finished my shot as planned. Mainly a product shot for the glasses but a bottle of veuve champagne with orange label to provide interest. I won the champagne in the draw at a corporate exhibition so this was a no cost photo as per the brief with Don. Motivation is on the glasses and the champagne bottle is intentionally blurred

Two lessons learned and figured out as below.

1 - Sync Speed
Upto now I have been using aperture priority for my flash shots and some ambient light was contributing to the overall exposure of the scene. The shot with the glasses was very difficult with regard to controlling stray light from the window only 1m to the left of the setup. Yesterday (above) I used black flags and near darkness to achieve the result and today I experimented with sync speed. The sync speed is the fastest the camera can 'sync' with the flash output and the higher reduces any effect from ambient light such as reflections from windows, walls and other objects in the room. A test shot of the scene manual mode 1/250 f13 produced a totally black image, even in RAW with +2EV nothing was evident as a reflection. Therefore I could continue with the shoot in daylight without interference.

2 - Snoot
The construction of a snoot (pictured) allows a beam of light to be finely directed to the label and by limiting the diameter of the snoot to the vertical height of the label only label is lit and no artifacts are present on the bottle or glasses. The power of the secondary flash through the snoot was set 1/16 although starting at full power and lowered toward 1/16.

Put all that together and include above rounds off a weekend of flash photography where two major lessons have been learned.

Please ignore champagne in the glasses this was something extra but did not workout.

Final result here
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...hp?photo=11266

:D :D :D love it.

Don

Great bit of improvisation Foxy

Having been following this thread for a while and impressed with some of the results achieved - today I can throw my hat into the ring.

Not normally a fan of flash for still life or any other kind of shots and would if possible always favour natural light or a full studio set up.

Lacking both today, I was forced to utilise a flash gun to capture some food shots for an impending website catalogue. Whilst the subject matter isn't partucarly inspiring I was pleased with the final results from what was a very crude configeration!

Jon,

This image made me visit your web site. Sorry for not visiting earlier.
You have some really good stuff there and I am surprised we have not seen more of you posting in this thread.

This set up has worked better in the Apricot shot, probably as that has the colour of the fruit. I feel lightening the background would give it a lift.

Don

Probably becuase I favour natural light or full studio set up - the flash gun in this instance was a last resort.

I have been enthralled by your expertise in this subject.

Sadly, running a shop and a photography business doesn't give me as much time to play at present - I have less opportunites to visit this forum these days.

I preferred the apricot version - hence the choice for my website! - There was also a shot of just the plastic containers which I liked, I'll probably keep that for one of my leaflets.

Interesting point on the backdrop - I had thought about a different colour background, but decided it would detract from the subject. I discarded the shots with the lighter background feeling that this version drew the viewer towards the fruit at the front. I also think that many of my previous images had plain backdrops and thought just for a change...

Jon

Nikon ED shot
 

I noted in the forum about a freebie in 02.12.06 edition of AP, page 2 has an advert for the Nikon D80 and when I looked it I thought.. I have to do something like this (see pic1) This advert supplied the inspiration for the shot. The shot is clearly lit from both sides and little from above and the DX motive is clearly illuminated as is Nikon.

Now for my shot...

The camera and lens had to be put on a mini tripod so to lean back enough to show 'Nikon'. Using SB 28's (recently acquired) I lit both sides (flashes A and B) but flash B also lights the 'Nikon' and 'D2X' legends. Both these flashes are set to 1/2 power. The 28-70 lens has a macro setting so I was able to get close at 50-60mm-ish focal length. to get all in focus minimum aperture had to be used (f22). The whole thing looked a little flat so flash C that was just used to trigger slaves at 1/128 manual was positioned and set to 1/32 to illuminate the gold ED badge. This flash was set to max zoom of 105mm and only lights the badge.

Note no brollys, diffusers or relectors have been used for this shot only three flashes positioned and set. Anyone could have done this with a little thought and planning.

So...whats stopping you!

Thanks for the insight Stephen, I'm learning all the time.

In a lot of cases, you lot should sell your shots (with royalty, so you get money whenever its published) to the product manufacturer.

Nice to see the coffee mug in the set up shots though, all the best set ups are configured whilst supping a hot brew! ;)



Seriously, great set up and result.

Nikkor shot.
 

The Nikkor shot was lit in a fairly standard way with equal lighting from above left and right at full power see pic 1. Light power however was a problem hence the proximity of the brollys. To get something in the left front element a third flash was used again at full power through a reflector (pic 2). To eliminate a brolly artifact in the lens a black flag was used to prevent any light forward of the subject, unfortunately due to lack of hands even with an assistant this could not be shown in the photos.

In the course of this photo a problem in Nikon's creative lighting system has been found. Using SB800 in commander mode set to manual full power on channel 1 and a SB600 in slave mode set to full power on commanding SB800 flash power is REDUCED not increased. There must be some light metering through the SB800/600 there is not a doubling in output in this configuration. Optically triggered SB28's may be confusing SB800/600. SB600 was omitted in this photo realying on one flash in each brolly and a third behind a reflector overall exposure had to be increased by 1 stop in Capture NX when a fourth flash should have been used.

Abbot Ale shot
 

Its true we have run out of beer and we plan to do more shopping in 3-4 days. I decided to photograph the can to get some further benefit :rolleyes:

The general arrangement was to show the 'All gone....' situation with a crushed can on the foreground and open cans to the rear. This is the first shot I have used a mirror, its the bathroom mirror I took of the wall earlier :o

Black velvet was wrapped around a picture frame and provided the background and the mirror did the rest (see pic1).

Initially I decided only simple lighting was required and intended to use one flash and brolly. Although pleased with the result of one flash to the left I thought to improve the shadows to the right of the picture by adding another (pic2). Main light set to full and the second to 1/2 providing some shadow, but not much - this setup is dismantled and I wish I had experimented with less power on the right (pic3)

Very clever Stephen. I was unsure about the base, hence gallery comment. The lack of double reflection, normal from glass over velvet puzzled me a bit. All answered now. So how does Sarah feel about taking the house to bits for the benefit of photography. ;)

I agree with a touch less power on the second flash 1/8 - 1/16. Another trip to Sainsburys required, but perhaps we should wait on Ians verdict. :D :D

Don

Sarah is very pleased with the nice clean mirror now hanging back in the bathroom :D Sadly the composition was dismantled before I did the write up table and dining room rearranged for lunch so only a thought for reduced power on right hand side.

Progress made with the mirror and I am happy with the photo just could be that little bit better with the use of hindsight.

The only help I can offer, is emptying more cans

Ian
p.s. Super shots yet again

This my first attempt at a shot a la' Foxey Bob and Flash gorDON,;)
As Most of the light was from patio doors I set the D70 at 2.5 secs and counted down 2 secs then fired off a flash manually to the left and above head hight to give me a little more reflection. Not bad as I've spent the last two days in bed and still feel lousy today,(Apparently the family said the Turkey tasted very nice, I wouldn't know as everything I have eaten over the last three days all tasted the same to me:(
All I want to do now is to go out and try out this d70:)
PS
This photo is in my gallery

I'm relatively new to photography, and seeing some of these shots and how they are achieved has opened my eyes and mind to a whole new dimension of capturing an image. The Abbot Ale shot is simply marvelous. Many thanks to you all, to inspire some one in any subject is a blessing, and I'm inspired.
Dean.