Dean, Thats how I felt when I first joined WPF, Keep looking and learning, and pick as many brains as you can, I did and still do.
Lello

The Leffe Shot (Supplies !)
 

After two other bottle and glass type photos I thought this would be easy. I started by composing the shot with an empty glass and using lighting from above set to decide the main light and lens aperture.

What follows is the development path and thought process that arrived at the final photo.

Unfortunately the brolly created a large artefact in the glass (pic1) and I racked my brains for something that would reduce this. After some thought I figured that the reflection was coming from the stem of the glass and placed a penny in the bottom to cut this off, this was unsuccessful (pic2). A brew later I thought to place water in the glass to simulate refraction of the beer in the final shot and it did help (pic3). More pause and I decided I needed a black flag to cast a shadow in the glass – then - :eek: The penny dropped ( no pun intended ) and I thought the head of the beer would do exactly that and act as a large diffuser floating on top of the beer (pic4).

The labels were then lit using a snoot with a second flash at ¼ power through a diffuser which cooled the flash artefact on the left hand side of the labels but did not eliminate entirely. Overall shot and second flash with snoot can be seen in pic 5.


The beer is not actually beer instead tea foamed using one drop of washing-up detergent. One pint was made with one drop then whisked to get the foam tight and beer looking – hope this looked like authentic beer and for those who don’t know Leffe Bruin is a very dark beer.

Finally if you work for BMI in the First Class departure lounge at Brussels (National) Airport then on my next visit I promise to return the glass. The glass is used so has some marks probably from other users and BMI staff!

Note:- setup photos are for illustrative purposes only and are lower in quality that the final image seen in our gallery.

Thats a great behind the scenes Foxy Bob. Full marks for the thought process. Excellent job with the tea and washing up liquid - very inventive. The head looks right, and if you had not said so, I would not have known.

I see you have made good use of the canon snoot again. For the benefit of new viewers to this thread, I call it so because it looks like a canon, not part of Canons inventory.

Very good pic, but I would make a request if there is a chance of reshoot, before you give back the glass. The glass has a great logo and it would be nice to bounce a touch of light back, to brighten it.

I won't comment on how you have the glass, unless BMI let you walk to the aircraft beer in hand so not to rush you. :rolleyes:

I notice Lambrini still unopened on the side. :D :D

Don

One thing with home drinking is the head on beer can quickly go, whereas a true pint of 'real ale' in a pub is a totally different type of beer and the head tends to stay longer.

The cosmetic beer I drempt up this morning has a washing-up detergent head and therefore stays for a long time. The photo was shot about 10 minutes after pouring and still looked good. Even when I packed away after editing, some 20 minutes the head was still intact but began to have larger bubbles so was looking a little fake.

The reason for the 10 minute delay was movement of snoot, centreing and finalising the shot.

I recommend this artificial beer this type of beer shot as it allows time to get the right shot.

The glass sort of selected me as I found it in my carry-on luggage when I arrived home and I have no idea how it got there ;)

Fake beer! Go wash your mouth out, at once, use the stuff you have thoughtfully provided for yourself in the glass.

I can understand the thought process, and know exactly what you mean about it gong flat quite quickly. I'd have tried it with beer, got the lighting right. Had a break, whilst emptying the glass slowly, after a suitable pause, refilled and taken the final shot.

If you're going to take a glass for each type of Belgian beer you drink, you'd better get bigger luggage. It's part of the brewing culture that each beer has its own distinctive glass, it's all part of the marketing. There are bars in Brugge that serve over 300 different beers. That's a lot of glassware if you're going to continue collecting. You can get Leffe glasses in presentation packs in most decent off-licences at this time of year. I suggest Oddbins if there's one near you.

Later edit:
There is clearly a different texture to the head of Real Leffe Brune. Who needs flash anyway? Quarter second, hand held. I like my new toy. :D

Much later edit:
How did you end up with the Lambrini glass then? That must be a far more shameful tale.

I had a crack at it tonight. Ive atached my first two results, im using no more than the flash built into my D50. Any tips etc are welcome. Subject is the familys camera. The third photo is my set up.

I continue to be fascinated by this thread. The thought processes and results continue to be amasing and extremely educational.

If you do undertake a re-shoot, how about trying to achieve the same effect as the snooted flash but using a small mirror or mirror card as a focussed bounce - I'm intrigued to know if you can produce similar results with one flash?

I use vanity mirrors and cards cut to various shapes and sizes covered in foil to produce/control highlights in shots, but I wouldn't even start to think about a set up like this without my studio heads.

I know not having a modelling light makes this awkward to set up but it occurred to me many following the thread have one flash gun...

Jon,

If you play with flash a bit you can work without modelling lights by pre-visualising the effect of each flash. You do need to be on manual though.

A 1 gun challenge ;) :)

Don

Using the pop up only is a bit like having both hands tied behind your back for shots like these Ollie. Other than my behind the scenes I never use a flash mounted ON the camera.

I will give this a bit of thought though. Another challenge. :rolleyes:

Don

Yes it is rather limiting, but at the moment i cannot buy a flash gun so i have to make do without.

Having problems with fooling the D100 pre flash. Unless fooled the camera will not fire. I may even have to read the camera manual. :eek:

Looking like another ' Blue Peter ' job. :rolleyes:

Don

D100 & pop up flash only
 

I have to go out food shopping. Morrisons is 12 miles away so it will be a bit before I get back to this.

First sample pic ( full frame ) from D100 using Pop Up Flash, two polystyrene reflectors and a 4 inch square mirror, black card background.

It is a full pop up flash shot with no ambient light influence. Manual 1/160 sec at f9 ISO200.

Excuse dust and other imperfections, I will do a proper job of the whole thing when we get back.

Don

For a pop-up, that is mighty impressive Don. Just goes to show that it can be done if you know what you are doing. Any chance of a "behind the scenes" to show the position of the flags and reflectors?

Duncan

Behind the scenes of the F2AS using Pop-up Flash
 

After a successful trip to Morrisons - got a 220mm ( just over 8 1/2inch ) plastic salad bowl for the ring light - cost £0:69, I returned to the pop-up flash project.

The essence was to use a 4 inch square mirror to bend the flash beam, and direct it at a large reflective surface and then bounce light from that back at the subject.

Due to the limited power only G/No. 15 this takes a bit more care in setting up than with conventional set up if you are going to manage apertures in the f11 plus range to get reasonable dof. A small mirror is essential.

For this shot I used black card as a background rather than velvet, as it is cheap and easily available, in a wide range of colours from craft/art shops.

The first thing is to set up the subject and taking camera. For this I tried to make it as repeateable by others as possible so used Auto Focus. I initially fell over as camera would not fire - reason is I was just inside focussing range :o , so check this before going further.

Once the subject and camera are set up then consider placing a reflective white card or such, to reflect the light from the flash to the subject. There is no need to clamp the mirror to a stand. I did it so I could do a behind the scenes shot and it was a total pain when it came to taking the pic itself. Far easier to hold the mirror with one hand and press shutter with the other. The mirror can easily be aimed at the white surface when viewing from behind the pop up.

I did not try this on programmed exposure as just as easy to do it in manual. After a test shot you can see if any reflectors are needed. AP freebees, white card, kitchen roll, in fact anything white will do.

For the record I spent longer cleaning the camera, selecting pose, and setting mirror up on stand for the behnd the scenes shot than taking the pic itself.

So Ollie you can do quite a bit with a pop-up flash. It just requires a bit of thought.

Don

Duncan,

For the Nikkormat shot similar to the F2AS but only 2 polystyrene reflectors - one each side and camera on a bit of card. Its all about increasing the area of the flash hence bounce it via a large white surface, and moving the light away from lens axis to avoid hard shadow.

I will do a graphic tomorrow as I have had my daily ration of image uploads for today.

Don

Duncan,

Finally the graphic to explain the logic behind mirror and reflectors when using pop-up flash as in the Nikkormat shot in post # 256.

Don

Don, it's a fantastic thread you've started.
I didn't know about this till yesterday. Thanks to Duncan for guiding me here.

From your post #17, one observation and a suggestion: To get a proper reflection, a glass is not enough. You get double reflections because of double surface. Glass can be painted matt black to avoid second reflection.

That's exactly what I had done to shoot this BMW 1:18 model.

Mercedes Benz 1:18 model was shot on a black acrylic sheet. Only problem with acrylic is they get scratched very easily.

I haven't kept any shot setup pictures to explain but I'll start a new thread on this with my drawings.

Till such time let me read this thread and learn.

Rudra,

Did you paint the underside of the glass matt black?

D.

Rudra

I am well pleased you have found the thread. Having seen some of your other flash images, then I feel we have a lot to learn from you. An immediate example is what you have just posted and is something I had not thought about.

This forum was set up by Foxy, as at one stage all the posts were in a single thread see this link http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...ead.php?t=1863

Start as many threads as you wish, do not feel limited to posting in an existing one.

Don

Duncan, paint one side (any side) of the glass with matt black paint. I'm sure it's available in any paint shop. Ensure it's matt and there you go.

I need to draw some sketches for explanation/diagram before I start a thread. It'll be done soon, I promise.

Another 'trick' to get a similar look is to use a black floor/wall tile, although it does limit the size of subject!

Two sheets of glass now painted and drying, but a sneak peek says they look really good. I still need to protect the painted side from scratching once its dried.

Cheers Rudra.

Don

Fantastic Don, trust me, you won't regret.

Yes, take care of them. Fine scratches (due to rough handling) are not visible with naked eyes but they shout out like crazy in photographs...especially when you're shooting close-ups.

Today I managed to get some stiff art card. Only 0.3mm thick but seems to be quite adequate to protect the paint. Cut to size and taped round.

Next thing is to take some pics. :)

Don

Reflection sharpness test
 

I promised Foxy I would do a reflection sharpness comparison between matt painted glass and ...........
1) Plain glass laid on black velvet
2) Subject placed on a mirror, reflecting a black velvet background.

For this experiment I sprayed one half of an off-cut of perspex, as the results would be similar to that from glass.

No contest results attatched. :)

Don

No contest indeed.

'Rudra' glass is by far the better and sharper reflection but with the lowest intensity, probably due to attenuating the second image.

New WPF technical term. We will have to call it that from now in the equipment used part when posting images. :)

Don

Is it only me or that double reflection of thick glass is bothering anyone else?

Thick glass? Which one or all of the four samples is bothering you.

I am talking of this; (Please see the image) that you see on 3 out of 4.

I think I still prefer my friendly photoshop, both for ease of final result (No sweat, of course no unusual fun either) and also for much more controlable end result.
Here is my go:

Smartie pants Sassan. :) :p

Very neat, and how you did that may be of interest to those unable to get black acrylic or have anywhere to paint a sheet of glass.
I would be interested anyway.

I see you did this work on image 1 ( black paint v velvet ). It would be interesting to know if your method works on image 2 ( black paint v mirror ). As you can see from that the mirror gives a lighter reflection, and the size of the double reflection can to a degree be controlled by angle of view. ie taken from higher angle then it would be closer to the double reflection from velvet and glass.

As for me I do not have your photoshop skill so have to find a way of doing it in camera hence going the Rudra glass way.

I was about to paint my new larger sheet of glass but will hold off in case I need to do a pic with black velvet to try your pp method on. ;)

Don

My rules suggest the picture should be created in the camera then enhanced in photoshop not added to.

Rudra glass is the best way forward.

I have to do it in camera as I do not know how to do it in pp. :p

I promised Sassan the F2AS. Lighter reflection from glass and black velvet may be the way to go hence I need to experiment before painting my bigger glass.

Attatched is an early Nikkormat shot taken with black card under perspex and it seriously suffers from double reflection. :(

Don

As I have some clear perspex sheet that I can use to replicate the effect of glass and velvet I decided to paint the glass yesterday evening.

Foxy's and my glass were painted with Halfords matt black spray paint. No probs.

WARNING:

For this sheet I used locally sourced ' CarPlan ' matt spray paint. Despite wearing a mask the fumes from the ' CarPlan ' paint were something else. Far worse than from Halfords paint despite both being cellulose. :eek:

Something I did not think about at the time was that the fumes from the paint got into my clothing. After the last coat I came in from the workshop and logged onto WPF. After a few minutes on the forum, Lucky our stray budgie fell of his perch and was in a bit of a disoriented state. The reason quickly clicked as he had had a similar reaction to white spirit. So I quickly changed clothes and ventilated the room.

Lucky is fine and as I type this and is sitting on my hand chatting away. :)

Don

Give my best wishes to Lucky (lucky little thing)

Lighting for JBL coaxial. Sorry, I didn't have any other camera to shoot the set up...so a quick Photoshop illustration.

Don can probably add more to this set up.

Attachment 4356

What more could I possibly add to that Rudra :p :D , other than a suggested method for those without a studio 500 joule unit where you could substitute normal flash guns and diffuser. Never going to get you quite the same light or the ability to get to f29 though.

Super job Rudra and thanks for taking the time to do the graphic. Cannot say it enough times .......... Totally stunned by the pic.

Don

So you're not taking the responsibility Don?? :D

Well, a flashgun (Metz hammer head type) can be used to get result like this. Place the flashgun behind an acrylic (white) sheet. Distance between that sheet and flash shouldn't be more than a foot.

Flash will create a graduated intensity (more like a hot spot). Strong in center and gradually losing it’s strength. This has one advantage. It often allows you to shoot without a cutter or an opaque card.

Main issue here is the power, which is even less now by coming through that acrylic sheet. Put the flash in full power and camera in bulb setting. Make the room totally dark and go for multiple flashes. One may needs to fire the flash ten/fifteen time to get an aperture of f22+..

This is a trial and error process but can yield satisfactory results. However this cant be the substitute for a studio flash… Oh, how I miss my old Multiblitz system.

Lighting set up for black Mercedes Benz E220.

Attachment 4359Attachment 4360