Flash & metalic objects
 

Assistance required please..

Being relatively new to flash photography & thus far playing it on a trial & error basis I'm coming a bit stuck for what to try next when taking shots of metalic, (reflective), objects for work.

I'm using my D50 with 2 x SB22's & trying a host of permatations to diffuse, I must admit to these diffusers being somewhat home made; tissue paper, thin foam; etc; etc.

Is it possible to produce catalogue quality shots with this minmal gear or do I need to go down the route of light boxes and daylight balanced lighting etc; etc?

Any suggestions / advice will be sincerely welcomed & appreciated.

Al.

It is possible to produce catalogue quality using minimal gear. Its a little more difficult as more obstacles need to be overcome when compared with using more fancy equipment such as lightboxes etc.

Lighting in your example is fair but choosing the right background is just as important as the subject. If the background had been black then the shadow from above lighting would have been lost without any lighting rethink.

Al,

Your flash and homemade diffusers are fine for smaller objects up to about 12 inch cube, beyond that then large light sources ( lightboxes ) make life a lot easier.

There are lots of pics showing set ups in the ' Behind the scenes '. In all cases where I have used a softbox then a smaller flash and diffuser could have been substituted. Purely a matter of conveniance for me as the flash in the softbox is mains powered, and I can leave it turned on so saves me lots on batteries. My other flashguns are old and do not go onto standby when not in use. All of Foxys pics are taken with standard flash units.

As Stephen has said the background choice is just as important as the subject. Something plain that does not clash.

Quite a bit of trial and error for light postitioning in the first few objects you take on.

For metal objects then sometimes a bit of harder light from an undiffused flash, or using silver foil reflector, ( kitchen foil scrunched up and flattened attatched to a bit of card ) helps to create highlights.

I will have a look later for something similar, so I can do a behind the scenes to explain my ramblings.

Don

And that is how I started off with flash. :) :D :rolleyes:

Don

Maplins do a small "portable studio" light tent <<<<LINK>>>> which they did have on offer at £9.99 although I see on thier website it is back up to £19.99. This would soften the shaddows considerably.

The picture on their website doesn't actually show the correct assembly - if you imagine rolling it forward through 90 degrees so that the peice of background material sticking out becomes the base, their base becomes the back and you then have white sides & TOP with the black case that is showing in their picture at the back folded back on itself at the back. Probably a bit difficult to visualise :confused: - I'll post a picture of mine if I get chance when i get home tonight.

Al,

This is a fairly straightforward flash job of keyless chucks. The chucks are placed on a mirror that reflects the background of black velvet so they appear to be on a shiny black surface.

The aim was to show a very simple light set up and particularly the use of black flags to reflect dark areas onto the shiny subjects to enhance their form.

Attatched is an explanitory behind the scenes shot, and a comparison of using a single overhead flash, and of adding a second flash to act as a fill light. All of the light from the second unit was reflected by the reflectors.

I hope this is of some help.

Don

Al,

Here is an over the shoulder view of the setup. When viewed through the camera the black velvet reflection covers the visible portion of the mirror.

Don

Al,

As you are going to have a go this weekend pick something simple to take a pic of. Start off deciding on the background and the angle you want to take it from and then decide on the position of your main light. Take a few pics to get the best angle from that one flash. Then consider your second unit. Use that to add a highlight or lessen a shadow. The second flash will be on reduced power to not compete with the main/key light.

Don

Al,

I can't add much advice on the general photographic technique beyond what has been stated above. However, one of the things Don taught me (by way of gentle critique) is that subject preparation is vital for the kind of subject you are photographing here.

Flash and smooth reflective objects are very unforgiving of dust, dirt and fingerprints. The tiniest mark will show up like a sore thumb. Use gloves, clean your subject thoroughly, clean the surface it is placed on thoroughly.

You can take shots of "Master" quality with the equipment you have, it will take a lot of practice and time, but it can be done. As well as the ad-hoc accessories you have listed, a bit of card covered in tin foil can be useful, as Don has suggested, a bit of black card and black cloth (I use a pair of Mrs Y's black velvet trousers) are handy. Also, I've found a tupperware bowl and lid can be put to good effect as diffusers. Sellotape and/or assistants are useful as you never have enough hands to hold things in place.

Duncan

Stephen, Don, Clive & Duncan, many thanks for your input.

Anyway, as you will detect, I’m still somewhat struggling! (See attached pics). Just thought I’d let you know my experiences so far.

I am using a black background consisting of thick cardboard painted matt black. The base was an old glass kitchen chopping board, again, matt blacked. I’ve also made sides from the matt blacked cardboard.

The attached “efforts” also have a glass sheet laid over the matt black base; (no spare mirrors available, but I’m on the lookout).

If I’m really honest here, my initial thoughts were to take a crisp photo of the piston and then address the background with various tools in PS. Initially it didn’t work with the black background because the reflections on the piston itself were too similar a colour to able to separate, even at a tolerance of 1%! I learnt a lesson though; I thought “I’ll try a different colour”, I tried it with a light blue background and found myself in the same position, although this time with similar shades of light blue! Obvious now I know!

The vertical flash reflection down the centre of the piston I now see as a flaw that in some respects adds a little to the image. Jamie actually stumbled on how to get rid of it as we couldn’t understand why, when bouncing the on camera flash at 90 degrees we still got this line. Jamie held a piece of card along the underneath edge of the flash screen. We found out that the flash still produces sufficient light to create this line from what is emitted from the underneath edge of the flash screen!

I’m not sure but I think the equipment I’m using hasn’t really got the adjustments required; the SB22’s only work at full power on manual settings as I can see, & the only way to limit the output to subject is by way of diffusing to differing levels. I think I may have to look into purchasing the lead required so as to have the main flash “off camera” at the lower than subject level as indicated in the setup pics. Does anyone know the Nikon lead number I require?

I think the “washed out” black background must be down to the power of flash that I can’t limit successfully (yet).

One thing I can say is that I think I’ve “got the bit between my teeth” so to speak, I’m starting to think more of the reflective implications of flash, and, I suppose this has got to be an advantage to have in photography in general. Also, with the keyless chuck pics in mind I’ve got a datum standard to aim for!

Once again, thanks all for the tips and advice, it inspires me to carry on. It’s also a moral booster to know I’m not the only one to utilise items like sellotape, blue tac, Tupperware, (I use a maggot tub lid sometimes), & tin foil etc; etc.

Thanks again,

Al.

Al,

Getting the flash off the camera's hot shoe is a must. Once you've done this, you can not only change the angle of the flash relative to the subject, but you can vary the effective power - by moving it closer or further away. You can also bounce the light off the walls and ceiling a lot more easily to help diffuse the light.

I'm not familiar with Nikon stuff to be able to advise on the dedicated lead, but I use a very, very cheap setup of a single contact hotshoe to PC (studio flash) contact adaptor, a 2m PC lead, and a PC to single contact hotshoe adaptor with the flash mounted on it. This latter item has a tripod thread in its base which makes moving it's angle or position simple. The use of single contact off-camera flash leads means you will be stuck with manual mode, but there's nothing wrong with this, you just have to experiment and chimp a lot.

Another cheap way of getting the flash off the camera is to use a "peanut" remote flash trigger, as discussed in other flash technique threads. These can be triggered using the cameras pop-up unit.

You can see the kind of things I'm waffling on about here:
http://www.warehouseexpress.com/inde...kaiseracc.html

Duncan

I agree with Duncan. Getting the flash away from the camera provides much more flexibility and a more 'commercial' feel to the image. Notice the Master (Don) NEVER uses on-camera flash.

I tried black card as a black base until I found black velvet which I had a hard time finding. Black velvet tends to absorb light leaving it still jet black even though some light may be spilled on to it. Black card will always shine and produce the grey Al mentions.

Nikon off camera flash lead is SC-28, cost £50-60 a fairly high cost but a definite investment into the pleasure these photos provide when it all comes together.

Al,

As Stephen has said the SC-28 lead is the current item. I have SC-17 which it replaced and you might be able to find a second hand one of those.

I will see if I can find a downloadable manual for the SB-22 from the Nikon site then I can see your options.

I only ever use manual flash as that way I can control the light output by either turning the power up or down, or moving it nearer to or further away from the subject which has the same effect, but I know Foxy has used ITTL very successfully.

If the piston is your subject I will see if I can find something similar to have a go at, so I can do more behind the scenes shots. Do not worry that you are struggling a bit at this stage. I did too, but at least you do not need to buy shares in polaroid as you are on digital. :)

Don

I have found a link to the SB-22 manual http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/...ghts/SB-22.pdf

I have not read it yet though. :) :rolleyes:

Don

Now I have had a quick look at the manual I see that setting manual on the flash limits you to full power as the only setting. To reduce the light output the best option is moving the flash further from the subject. Double the distance will give 1/4 of the power.

Al, if you are triggereing the second unit through some sort of slave then you can try TTL on camera and manual for the remote.

I really need to read the D50 manual now. :D

Don

Back now and I have checked the D50 manual and see the available flash modes with the SB22 are : NonTTL Auto and Manual. Non TTL auto is where the flash is measured by a sensor on the flashgun rather than in the camera. This means you have to be careful that the sensor is not receiving light direct from the second flash unit rather than light reflected by the subject.

Probably easier to control using manual. In manual you do actually have a form of power reduction by using the wide angle diffuser. The flash is quoted as being Guide No 25 and reduced to G/N 19 with the wide angle adaptor.

A link to the pictorial view and some specs of the SB22 http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography...SB22/index.htm

Don

Don, I found this on the net:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=8213955
Does this mean I can actually use the MD setting to produce flash at 1/10th power?..Actually whilst writing this I thought, "try it"..Well it doesnt produce as much flash, I can only assume it's 1/10th!..I won't obviously hold anyone to this, but I assume it cant do my camera any harm, can it?
Al.

I will read the link in a sec but MD setting used to apply to motor drive and was a seriously reduced output otherwise the flash could not keep up on the recharging front. So 1/10 sounds reasonable. I really do not know why they bothered as pho journalists used quantum battery packs on really powerfull guns like the Metz CT60.

Now to the business of the day. :D

The best I could do to simulate the piston. Quite a lot larger and I had to use a sink unit aluminium liner as the backdrop as it was big enough for the job.

I used manual exposure and turned the flash gun power settings down to get as near as I could to the SB22. Notice from the behind the scenes how close I had to place the Metz. It only has three settings and so I set it on minimum to be realistic. Aperture was f13 at ISO 100 for undiffused. That had to be increased to ISO 200 for the diffused shots as the diffuser costs a stop of light.

Attached pics are :
Behind the scenes showing the layout.
A composite of two shots with ON camera flash. One straight undiffused, and the other with the SB80-DX diffused.
Lastly an OFF camera flash shot.

Don

Al,

Yes MD is real low power. However ............................. exceptionlly fast flash duration. I will see if I can find a number but probably in the region of 1/15,000 sec + . Good for freezing water drops at the moment of contact with either water or something else. A lot of trial and error required for that sort of thing though.

Using it will not harm your camera. :)

Don

Many thanks again Don..I will digest fully tomorrow & experiment..(the Sat night red wine fuzz is setting in)!..One further question, off topic but again probably answered by trial; my camera's flash synch speeds are between 1/250th & 1/500th; as I've previously been experimenting with the water droplets thing does this mean I'll be able to up the shutter speeds to 1/1000th, maybe 1/1500th on this MD setting?..That gets me further away from the subject as I've got my eye on some second hand SB24's SB25's & SB26's as they have the strobe facility which I believe is "the thing" for water droplet pics. Is this correct?.. As I say, I'll experiment on the shutter speed synch thing & let you know.
Flash Photography eh! Another dimension completely!
Best regards & I sincerely hope this topics assists other WPF users.
Al.

Al,

D50 flash sync speed is MAX 1/500 sec. Any value at or below that can be set but not higher. Currently on full bore your flash duration is 1/1100 sec. I hope the attached graphic explains the logic of sync speed. On any flashgun as the power is turned down the flash duration is shortened. I will read up on the SB24's SB25's & SB26's to see what you will gain.

Don

Al,

In anticipation I have downloaded the manuals for SB25 and SB26. Historically the range is SB24 - 1988, SB25 replaced the 24 in 1992 and the SB26 replaced the 25 in 1994.
Benefits over the SB22 are higher guide number of 36 ( more power ) , swivel & tilt flash head and variable power output in manual mode. Big bonus is that all three will take the Stofen Diffuser code OM-C £15:95 at Warehouse Express. This diffuser is the business and needs to be included in the budget.

From a look at these specs it seems I may have been a bit optimisic as to flash duration of the SB22 in MD mode. :rolleyes:

Here are the flash duration numbers for SB25 & SB26
1/1,000 sec at full output
1/1,100 sec at 1/2 output
1/2,500 sec at 1/4 output
1/5,000 sec at 1/8 output
1/8,700 sec at 1/16 output
1/12,000 sec at 1/32 output
1/23,000 sec at 1/64 output

Don

Well..slight improvement tonight.."maybe"? With reduced power on the MD setting I was at F8, now looking at them I dont think I've achieved the DOF required..I've noted the "wear white gloves" advice too for next time!..anyway; got to go..the daughters mirror needs putting back on her wall!
Al

WOW Al,

Now you ARE cooking. I just compared image 3 ( could actually have been 1 or 2 ) with that in your first post. Incredible difference never mind " slight improvement ".

Well done definately in order. :) :) :)

Don

Had to have a go at something else in our range..I think I now need a better sample of said piston, anyway, I needed a rest from it!.. This is not as reflective at all as the piston but the techniques, hints & advice from you all helped me produce the attached..
Al.

Al,

Very good control of the light, as all the important detail is visible. The central portion is also good as it looks to be quite a glossy surface.

Don