advice sought on flight pics
 

Being of an excitable temperment, I posted
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...500&ppuser=780
which Ollie commented, probably rightly, that it was too far away to be worth taking. Obviously with the quality of plane pics posted by Ollie and Stephen Fox, I am prepared for a general comment 'if you don't have the right equipment and dedication to go to displays, leave off this subject', but would appreciate some guidelines if possible
1: Ollie started with what I had sussed too late, ie spot focus, whereas mine is usually set to central area focus
2: maximum exposure time to 'stop the props'?...looks like 1/640 or 1/800 from another shot I had of same copter with better detail, but only boring grey sky behind
3: if you can't get that speed don't try?
4: minimum lense spec?
5: Duncan gave a guideline of proportion of frame for bird pics, is there one for plane pics
6.....Nn what else?

Is there a place for technically sub-standard shots if they capture some sort of 1 off event of interest, as I would say is the case in other categories??

:o :o

It really depends on what you were trying to achieve, my first comment is that obviously the subject is out of focus, which would have improved the shot. For me the point of the shot is to show the helicopter hovering within the trees, this could have been enhanced by cropping in.

Ollie himself has a lot to learn, and his comment concerning the distance from the camera of the subject is one he hasn’t learnt himself.

I would say Ollie is slightly wrong, I've used evaluative focusing to great success on aviation shots, however I would say that at higher subject speeds the chances of success diminishes somewhat, and spot focusing is probably better. Another issue is whether your camera has a servo or ai servo facility which tracks a moving subject and keeps it in focus. The upper end Canon DSLR’s certainly have this facility.

Why would you want to stop the props, it gives a totally unreal look to the shot, not many aircraft fly with frozen props !!! Obviously the slower the speed the more movement you’ll get, 1/400 downwards is the norm, recently I’ve been shooting at 1/45 and 1/90 with varying results, some of which are featured on this forum. Panning with the subject also helps. This can also be influenced by the focal length of the lens being used, as can the weight of the equipment. It’s much harder to hand hold a large professional camera with big lens, rule of thumb (but not always) is that the shutter speed should match the focal length of the lens i.e if shooting at 400mm 1/350 -1/500, however lower speeds can be achieved with some practice, especially if panning.

Experiment and practice, it’s the beauty of digital that it costs nothing. My main interest is historic aviation, but because of my location I don’t get to that many airshows, so to practice I spend a morning or afternoon at the airport photographing anything that moves to get some practice in. Not very interesting but it’s better than nothing

Again depends on location, I was advised that minimum spec for Flying Legend at Duxford was 300 - 400mm however I spent the afternoon using a 70-200 F2.8 with good results and a totally different perspective. The 70-200 also meant I was able stop down the shutter speeds 1/45 - 1/90 compared to those using the larger lenses. As an average I would say 200mm is the minimum but don’t expect to see the pilots tonsils, 400mm is ideal.

Try to fill the view finder/frame with as much of the subject as possible, there is no point having 95% blue sky and 5% aircraft. Look at some of the aviation shots on this forum as a guide, Wheeler’s especially, which are generally superb.

Practice makes perfect.

I would say that it would depend on the event. There is a particular forum that has many substandard shots posted to it, but I would probably be banned for taking the Michael if I were to post a link.

Thank you for informative reply; will digest and take note

En830 does make some good points there. For me as i do not have a lock on my control pad on my d50 my major focusing problem is when i knock the direction button and move my focus point off center.

Have you tried reading the manual ? By all accounts the Nikon D50 has the ability to Lock Focus by pressing shutter-release button halfway (single-servo AF) or by pressing AE-L/AF-L button.

That was true with film, but for APS sensors the rule of thumb becomes:

T > 1/(1.5*FL).

where T is the exposure and FL is the lens focal length.

Leif

I may try that at the next show.

But you'll want AI servo (or the Nikon equivalent) not focus lock if shooting moving objects !!!!!

Thats what i thought, you had confused me when you mentioned focus lock.

No, you mentioned it in an earlier post.

I did not mean the focus lock. If you look at the back of a D50 it has a 4 way arrrow button to the right of the screen. If you press it it changes the focus point and there is no way of locking this.

Wheeler: The old rule for full frame 35mm cameras was that for hand holding the shutter speed needs to be at least 1/FL. So to update that to APS you multiply by 1.5. And as you say, the old rule of thumb is just a rough guide.

But I certainly won't argue with you when you say what works for photographing planes. You obviously know far more than I do about that. BTW nice pics!

Leif

I have just picked a link up from another forum that seems to be a good read for anyone whanting to try some aviation photography:
http://airfoto.photosite.pl/

Leif is correct 1/FL will provide an adequate shutter speed for sharp fuselage with some prop blur. However Wheeler is also correct to reduce shutter speed to yield a desired prop blur BUT depending on experience this will dramatically effect the number of 'keepers' but one or two crackers are possible. I have developed a formula specifically to give a certain amount of prop blur as five bladed props do not require as much blur as a single blade to give the ultimate full disc.

Forumla :-

Shutter Speed = (60/rpm)/(360/bdeg)

Where

rpm = prop rpm allowing for any reduction gearbox
bdeg = desired prop blur in degrees i.e. 72 for five blade and 180 for single blade.

This may not be perfect and is subject to real-life experimentation but is certainly good for guidance.

Rob, All I know is light aeroplanes the other stuff I just photograph and thought to do a bit of maths to help people.

Light aeroplane C152:-

Take off 2500rpm
Cruise 2150 - 2250rpm
Landing 1000-1500 depending on how your approach went!

I understand you are close to the Shuttleworth trust could you please provide an indication of warbird prop rpm, maybe you know someone who can provide the answer. I know warbirds have reduction gearboxes but what ratio?

I think I'll stick to photographing mushrooms. You don't need to worry about frames per second, prop blur, buying expensive pro-grade telephoto lenses etc. But I do have to work fast as given a day or two they disappear. :)

BTW Since there are some very capable photographers here, do you think the new Nikon 70-300 zoom on a DX body will be useful for air displays or will the maximum aperture be too slow?

Leif

The new Nikon 70-300 will be more than useful for airshows. I think a zoom to 400mm is perfect but 70-300 is adequate. I sometimes use 70-200 with 1.4X (280mm) if airshow is going to be crowded because of lightweight and compact. Max aperture no problem on normal days but if dull/raining will have problems but would you want to be out in that weather anyway - I know I wouldn't. Solution is to increase ISO, use faster lens or go home :).

Or to put the camera away and watch the display without looking through a camera.

Thanks for the answers. That 70-300 mm lens does look tempting.

Not quite in the flight-photography category, yet, but did anyof our aircraft enthusiasts get to the rolling-out of the Vulcan at Bruntingthorpe, Leics., on Thursday? Any pics?

Well, I was attending a business appointment on Bruntingthorpe airfield on Thursday. ;)

You're not the mystery benefactor who coughed up half a million, are you:)

Hi Guys
This is my first post. I was interested to read about everybodys theorys about prop blur. It seemed to me all very technical! My rule of thumb is to set my shutter speed to 1/200th and go for it! I haven't been let down yet.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...5/D2X_1036.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...0DTransall.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...5/D2X_3327.jpg

David

David,
Great photos there. I love the first photo paticualy.

Can't say how much I love the first shot too.

What an interesting way of showing the helical pitch of propellers that I assume is condensed water. Very unique.

Thanks for your comments. You can't beat a nice damp day for some good propwash!

David