DOF, camera shake and macro work
 

My new Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 macro lens arrived today. As ever, Canon's equipment is reassuringly solid and the image quality, I can see already, is going to be fantastic. I'll be using it for general work as well as macro, but the main task, at least to begin with, will be wildflowers. Early in the new year, I'll order a flash unit for it (I have my eye on the Macro Twin Lite) but, for once in my life, I decided to delay gratification a little and do the first month or so without the flash while I learn.

Now with a normal lens and normal-sized subjects (my cat, let's say, or a landscape), I have a good feel for what shutter speeds I can get away with. Similarly, I know what I can reasonably attempt or not attempt with the 100-400L. But a couple of dozen test shots of the weeds outside the back door are already enough to tell me that I have a lot to learn about macro work.

Obviously, the old 400mm = 1/400th of a second, 60mm = 1/60th rule doesn't apply on the macro scale. And equally, I need to be stopped down to f/8 or f/11 to get some depth of field for most shots. What is a good rule of thumb to apply for hand-held, available light macro work?

Thankyou all.

No rule of thumb. I try not to worry about shutter speeds with macro work.

Use a tripod and let the camera worry about how long to expose the scene. You need the DOF and you don't want to use ISO 800 so you just have to put up with longer exposures unless you are using a flash.

You cannot do true 1:1 macro work without a tripod. The depth of field is too shallow - the slightest movement of the camera will throw the subject out of focus - perhaps in full sun you can get the speed you need but who wants to take a photo in full sun!

Thanks Jim. Looks like that's another bit of gear I need to carry around then. I'm starting to feel like a pack-mule!

I'd agree that a tripod will usually make macro work a lot easier - if you stop down the lens to get a deeper DOF then you'll end up with slow shutter speeds. That said I personally like the effect of a shallow DOF on many macro shots, it can give a good effect. Attached is a shot of some heather in my garden, taken with the coolpix 4500 on macro, I think the DOF has made what could have been a fairly dull shot much more interesting.

Another of my shots (in the gallery), shows the effect of using a shallow DOF in macro work. I guess it depends if you want an acurate, detailed shot, or something a bit more 'abstract'.
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...=500&ppuser=53

I like those shots, PCV. A little different. But I think of them sort of the way I used to think of my leg-spinner back when I used to play cricket: a good wicket-taking ball, but only if I just slipped one or at most two leggies into an over of my usual off-spin. It's the same with blurred movement in a bird picture: once in a while, a blurred head as (e.g.) a small bird shakes the water off after bathing can look great, but only in the context of a majority of conventional "clear and sharp" shots.

I've had a bit more of a play with the 60mm just now in the evening after work, and I'm starting to feel sorry that I didn't already order the flash unit. Fished an old spare tripod out of the junk room a little earlier (a small one, not to be compared to the big Manfrotto I use for digiscoping) and discovered that it has a weird clip-on mounting arrangement with no screw socket. Most likely a part is missing, in which case my chances of finding it in this madhouse are not good! I could just buy another tripod before Christmas, but I usually find that purchases made in a hurry from whatever limited selection happens to be in stock at the local shops on the day are soon regreted.

Well, this is Australia and it's December, so it shouldn't be too hard to find plenty of really bright light to work with until I get the flash and a tripod. Oh, and I guess I'll need a cable release.

Meanwhile, I'll treat the next few weeks as a chance to develop some skills with the equipment I have. Any other tips to getting good macro results hand-held with natural light?

Why not just buy a second quick release plate for your Manfrotto, the you can easily switch between the scope and the camera on the same tripod. I know what you mean about a flash for macro work, there is often not enough light. It's just a shame that dedicated macro flashes are so expensive...

Why not just buy a second quick release plate for your Manfrotto, then you can easily switch between the scope and the camera on the same tripod?

I intend to do this before too long, but for the other camera with the 100-400L. I hadn't thought of using the big tripod for macro work though. Probably not suitable: big and clumsy, Manfrotto 501 head is great for digiscoping,probably good for a 400mm lens, no fine for and aft adjustment for macros though. But seeing as I need to buy the second plate anyway, why not try it out? Good idea.

It's just a shame that dedicated macro flashes are so expensive...

Ha! I've stopped counting the cost. You remember that scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail? The one where the knight has been slashed to ribbons, and had all his arms and legs cut off, and while his enemy rides off into the sunset he cries out:

"It's only a flesh wound, come back and fight you coward!"

Well, that's the way my credit card feels right now.

Classic.

I've just been having a play with DOF on macro - test below is a composite of shots of the same CD cover taken at different apertures... thought it would show the effect of DOF quite well. From left to right it is f2.8, f4, f5.6, f8, f11, f14 and f18.

Errrmmm, there's only one attachment Pete. You'll have to split over 2 posts anyway (max. 5 attachments per post). I'm very interested to see the results.

Duncan.

Macro is a field of photography in its own right.
So I am posting a link to in my opinion the master, .......... or Google Heather Angel.

http://www.naturalvisions.co.uk/

For macro I use a benbo tripod a bit awkward to set up but a lot more versatile design than the standard 3 leg type.

Diffused flash helps with extra light when a tripod cannot be used.
Selecting an angle that will maximise the very shallow DOF.
Even a collapsible reflector - mini lastolite type can help add light.

I'll just let her images speak for themselves.

Enjoy

Don

The one photo is made up of strips from the the 7 I took, the aperture decreasing from left to right...

Thanks Pete. Think I might even print this off and laminate it on a small card as a quick reference.

Hi again ... a few comments on tripods and flashes.

What works best in tripods (for me anyway) is one without a center column and that has a low minimum height with the legs collapsed. One where the legs splay out allowing you to get just a few inches above the ground is helpful as well. I find that most of my macro shots are low to the ground with me actually sitting or laying on the ground. Of course, 95% of my shots are nature.

For a flash, those expensive dedicated ring flashes are not required. A good reflector can do a lot or a regular flash (sometimes mounted off camera with a bracket) can frequently add a bit of light without harsh shadows (use a diffuser - thin paper works).

You don't have to get the equipment that allows to to get every shot. It's OK to miss a shot now and then.

On depth of field - don't forget that DOF works as a percentage (sort of) of distance from the subject. With a 50mm lens at f/4 and 1 foot you may have a DOF of under 1/16 inch. But at f/4 and 10 feet that becomes 2 feet.

An online DOF calculator is at: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

The wonders of the web. Great link. :)

Don

I don't think that trying to show DOF at various apertures worked very well using the CD cover, so I've given it another go - hopefully this one will make it a bit clearer. All taken using my EOS350D and a Sigma 105 macro, at a distance of approx 9 inches - then peeled, chopped and mashed together...

Just my twopennies worth, I've been shooting macro for many years. I now use the Canon 100mm & Sigma 180mm, for illumination I use a lastolite softbox attached to my Sigma flash gun. Would love the Canon twin light macro flash, but find it to be a little to expensive.

As for tripods I kicked the Benbo Trekker into touch, it's a very versatile tripod but a bit of a pig to set up. I recently purchased a Giottos Innovator Tripod MT 9170 which I find to be far superior to the Benbo and equally as versatile + it's also perfect for my canon 10D with the Bigma attached.

I know a guy who uses tin-foil as a reflector for lots of his macro work, mainly plants/toadstools. Anyone else tried this technique?

Im also looking for a tripod that hugs close to the ground for low angle and macro shots.

Good work on the DOF image example, Pete.

The Giottos will do this for you. the center column is removable, which then exposes a three way head into which you re-insert the center column. Then with the legs being adjustable to three different positions allowing close proximity to the ground. Have a look here, where you can see all the various positions obtainable with this tripod
http://www.giottos.com/eng_public/frameset.htm.

I use the Innovator Tripod MT 9170, you can also buy a similar one made from carbon fibre

Thanks for the link wolfie; not sure if its me, but im not seeing the Innovator MT9170. I'll keep trying :)

Tom look under the Pro Carbon Tripod series http://www.giottos.com/eng_public/frameset.htm this link may take you straight there.

Bear in mind you would need to factor in the price of an head, I'm using the Manfrotto 322RC2 Heavy Duty Model, however this makes the tripod very heavy, but any ball or three way head would sufice.

There are two types in the range, one alluminium and one carbon fibre, with both you can have the lens actually touching the ground.

Also look here http://www.warehouseexpress.com/inde...s/giottos.html

I bought a Velbon CF631 this summer which has a splittable centre column and with the legs open goes down to a mere 12cm (+ the height of your head). This shot was taken with it at its lowest a couple of weeks ago which would have had you flat on your stomach to look through a viewfinder (as opposed to a swivel screen digiscoping rig).

Attachment 75

The cheapest mail-order price around and very good service came from Morris Photo in Oxford

A number of the velbon models have the splitable centre column allowing you to get very low to the ground, as to some of the slightly older Manfrotto tripods. Another option for ground level shooting is to use a beanbag on the ground, much easier and cheaper than buying a new tripod.

CF630 is available from WE for £139 + P&P, a veritable bargain, can't see much difference between 630 and 631. I bought the CF530 but with hindsight I think the 630 would have been the better buy for the extra £15 over the 530. As postcardcv has said, the centre column is splittable. As well as being able to splay the legs out (by differing degrrees), you can split and reverse the centre column so that the column hangs down. Both halves of the split column have 1/4" threads on them that take a tripod head so you can use either half in the "hanging" configuration, with or without the legs splayed out to get the camera right down to ground level. If you wanted, you could even go below ground level with this technique. Framing up the shot is tricky when you have your head in a hole in the ground, but that's life.

Duncan

Duncan, having looked at the two images of the Velbon, it's my considered opinion that for versatility it does not compare with the Giottos.

I think all tripods become very tricky to use when at ground level. The Giottos Inovator performs in exactly the same way as the Velbon, but with a very big bonus as the attached image shows. You can turn the camera though 360 deg, raise or lower it and turn it on it's axis.

Now does the attachement work, I'm new to all this.

Harry

This certainly looks more user friendly than the Benbo. It has the extendable arm which was why I went for my Benbo all those years ago. If I was looking for a tripod for macro I would want to check this one out. I'm not surprised you ditched you tracker.

Don

Yes the Benbo was like trying to play a set of bagpipes, mind you when you eventually got it into the correct position it was extremely stable.

What I like about the giottos is that by replacing the center column you have a conventional tripod, so I have the best of both worlds.

Harry

I have just been to the gallery and to think I posted Tannin a link to Heather Angel. :confused:

These are absolutely STUNNING pictures. An inspiration to all. The lighting on Christmas Cacti, Bindweed and Autumn Leaves is superb.

Don

Well thank you very much Don, the lighting all excluding the bindweed was from two Sigma flashguns, usually with kitchen paper towelling to difuse the light.


Harry

This really goes to show what can be done for little cost. Pictures like yours look like they cost megga bucks in kit.

The idea behind the flash thread was to show what can be done for little cost. I've held reflectors in my teeth and tripped the shutter with the cable release taped to my knee before now as my hands were full. The final picture never shows things held in place by gaffer tape or bluetak, so give the impression that youv'e spent shed loads of cash on a lot of fancy kit.

Thanks again for sharing your superb pictures.

Don.

Duncan

If you read the post are are refering to you will see that the picture is a COMPOSITE. So you can see that from left to right across the picture you will see that the depth of field improves.

Yes, it's ok, I've figured that out now. Pete's post #16 made it all a lot clearer. Thanks.