Manual macro on the cheap.
 

Following on from Alex and his reversed 50mm and my experiment with direct reversed 28mm lens, I today had a go at using an enlarging lens. Strange you may think, but they are well corrected for close up work.

Sorry about the subject but most live bugs are now in hiding. Another very wet day.

Some stats.
55 Micro at 1:1 ..................... field of view 45mm
EL 50mm lens + 14mm ext field of view 50mm ( 1 extension tube )
EL 50mm lens + 41.5mm ext field of view 24mm ( 2 extension tubes )
EL 75mm lens + 41.5mm ext field of view 60mm ( 2 extension tubes ) With that result I did not even bother to try the 105mm.
Standard 50mm reversed field of view 27mm. Ok for occasional use as long as it is of the f2.8 variety. f1.2 / f1.4 do not perform well when used like this.

Although enlarging lenses do not have auto aperture, there is nowadays with the move to digital, the possibility of picking them up quite cheaply. The lens used here is currently listed in an MXV advert for £52 mint.

I used a rubber 'O' ring round the mounting thread to centralise it, and electrical tape to attach it to my lens reversing ring so nothing tricky. I should say that 50mm enlarging lenses have a Leica 39mm thread so a bit odd ball in that respect.

While magnification is not as great as using a reversed 28mm, less magnification = more DOF. A f2.8 enlarging lens with 2 tubes gives only a fractionally less bright viewfinder than the f2.8 macro lens but a big jump in magnification.

I have attatched a few images.
Image 1 is full frame with 41.5mm extension.
Image 2 is a crop from image 1.
Image 3 is full frame with closed up bellows attached + tubes giving an extension of 90mm and fov of 11mm.
Image 4 is camera with lens and 2 tubes to indicate the compactness. Lens + tubes are only a fraction longer than my 50mm lens.

Two flash guns on manual were used about 45 deg either side and about a foot away from the subject.

Don

Hats off Don.
Another well done job.

Don: These have a grin and IQ factor of 10....Outstanding results... I tried hand holding rev 28 today and I must be going blind because even in sunlight I can't see to focus above f5.6 and it is tough even at that for me.... Got this little JS on my little finger today but most of my shots are just missing focus and I can't see to focus where the lens aperture needs to be....:(.....Guess I need to try shooting it indoors with spot lighting on subject for focus.....Thanks for the inspiration, and demonstration of how fine this set up is when in the hands of someone that knows how to use it..... I am determined to get it yet:D....I'll keep at it.....Alex Sorry no thumbnails yet......
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...v28JS10141.jpg

Superb pic Alex.

Focusing a problem - yes. When dof is seriously limited as it is at these magnifications then I use a tripod. No way is my eye sight and hand stability up to handholding. In normal circumstances I use at the minimum a monopod at all focal lengths greater than 50mm and quite often lower. Marksmans badge gained in my youth out the window now. :rolleyes:

Your reverse 50 is the best option for mobility shots as you retain auto diaphragm so are always viewing/focussing at max aperture. Bugs on the move, and yours is the best set up even though I would struggle holding focus without support.

As I really have to nail the camera to a tripod I have limitations but then also gains. I am not kit limited even though I have nothing fancy, other than camera and flash, everything is older than 20 years. I can set camera/tripod and lights up and do exposure tests first. Then I use a small cardboard box lid with the front taken off. Add a few leaves or other suitable plant material and place subject within. You do need to keep any hot or bright lights well back to not stress the subject. Then it is a case of waiting for the moment. As I do not have a focusing rail I place the box on the milling table to give myself the micro control of back to front movement.

I you want to get really fancy you can link your camera to a laptop then preview images directly on a large screen. There is a thread on that subject in the ' General Photography Technique -
Camera Remote Control through a PC '.

Given the quality you are achieving here I would expect you to be able to have a lot of fun and create some cracking images if you give this a go.

Adding pics to your post is quite easy. There is info somewhere but in essence it must follow general guidelines as set out in Andys sticky in Members notice board. The image will be direct from your PC so sizing and previewing is easy.

Record where your image is on your PC. I just create a folder for each month and place it there. So much easier.

When you have composed your post scroll down and find the ' Manage attatchments ' button. Hit that and a fly out window will appear. You may have to sign in again. ( sometimes yes, sometmes no ). Hit the browse button and locate image on your PC. Click upload and WAIT. When image is uploaded the title and file size will be displayed. You can then repeat. Max 4 images per day so this will eat into you daily limit if gallery posting.

Try to remember those on dial up. If file size is too large people will not view. I tend for a max of 200mb, less is better, at 1024 x 760 to save scrolling.

3 images attached.

1) Crop from yesterdays EL 90mm - Extension
2) Shot of the set up. Others with laptop control are in the thread mentioned.
3) Screen grab with info on attaching images to a post

Hope this is helpful. Have fun.

Don

Hi Don: THis is excellent information..... Thanks for showing and for explaining... I will try the indoor set up... I love how crisp the shots are when hit right.... The lack of all the additional elements of glass clearly makes a difference. I will see how it goes today with your new info.... A milling machine table for a focusing rail?? Got to love it:D.... I will use tripod and make the stage portable.. I could see that the lens had good DOF when stopped down enough but it was so dark mostly all I saw was the detail of my eye and lashes in the viewfinder;)..... Thanks pal..... I appreciate it...
Oh.... I will also work on the thumbnail bit today....... Take care.....Alex

Christine,

I have just put my extension tubes, which I know you have, on my 80-200zoom.

Field of view at 200mm 72mm dropping to 46mm at 80mm. That is similar to a 55mm macro but obviously the macro will give far better sharpness across the frame as it is properly corrected for close up work.

28-105 zoom giving slightly surprising results. At 105mm fov is 36mm dropping to 27mm by the time 50mm is reached. I cannot go much lower as lens to subject drops alarmingly. Same comment as above re sharpness across the frame relative to a macro lens.

It does show that you can give close up a go with tubes and a zoom before embarking on a Macro lens spend. I have not done test shots with a zoom attached yet to see how good the combo is in real life.

I have been looking for adaptors to reverse a lens, and e-bay is probably the cheapest option by significant margin for Canon mount. I do not know why, as this price disparity is not so evident for Nikon mount. As you have a mount from your bellows it may be possible to do an electrical tape job to that. Perhaps you could post a pic of your adaptor.

Don

Thanks Don, I have done loads with my 75-300 and all ext tubes connected and the closest I can get is 100mm. The magnification is nothing like the photos that have been shown here. I am still looking around the house to attach a reversed 50mm to the end and see what I get. I have hand held it in front and it looks good but the photos are too shaky.

Zoom lens and extension tubes
 

Things are getting spooky round here.

Firstly I viewed Duncans Poppy image bang on the sounding of the 2 minute silence a week ago. Yesterday I viewed Chris's Grandfather clock as the first image in that gallery viewing, see his comment on it. Now today having posted on the use of extension tubes and zooms but with no sample images, I step out to disconnect battery charger from the car and ......... a wasp landed next to my hand. A quick rush inside to get extension tubes and zoom lens on the camera, pick up a flash, reflector and monopod and I managed two sample pics before it flew away. Just got to be more to this than luck.

Lens in use was Nikon 80-200 ED f2.8 and 2 tubes giving an extension of 41.5mm. The lens was initially set at 80mm but as the zoom ring was used to achieve fine focus these are probably at 100mm. Well that is what the lens was at after the wasp flew off. This gave a working distance of 9 inches. Aperture here was f11. Exif if you read it, will show f18 and that is because camera has calculated the light loss from the tubes.

Afraid I have no true idea of the natural light levels as I just set 160sec f11 and manual flash at full bore 18 inches away, with a reflector ( held by Stevie at 45 degrees ). My guess using the sunny f16 rule would put it at about 1 1/2 stops less. Flash was primarily used to allow me to use f11 to give some idea of dof at a sensible point.

It would only be fair for me to point out that the lens in use is although a few years old, a pro quality one. Any true Macro lens would well exceed the image quality here. I would expect edge softness particularly, to be greater with a kit quality zoom. It would be interesting to see any pics from other lenses to see if this is truely a viable cheap way into close ups. Extension tubes costing a lot less than a dedicated Macro lens for those occasional close ups.

Off the top of my head I do not know what lens Christine ( Saphire ) uses, but I have been impressed by the results in her gallery. Hint for a pic here Christine. :)

Pics here are full frame and crops.

Don

Christine,

I have not actually tried this with my zoom as a bit of a connection issue so probably would not work as well as Alex's set up. My 50mm is 52mm thread and the zoom 77mm thread. Kind of large front element leading to centering probs.

You will find focusing a bit of an issue as dof is very limited but you can overcome the shake issue in images by using full flash. The flash burst will be fast enough to eliminate the effects of shake. I do not know which 50mm you are using so suggest trying to keep subject the centre of the frame. A really boring but effective test shot you can try is anything with printed text, as you will be able to see if there is fall off of sharpness towards the edge of the frame.

Hope you like the wasps. :D

Don

Outstanding work Don.... I will be posting shortly... I am downsizing images to fit the requirements for uploads.... Great shots and excellent detailed info... I'd say that Nikkor Lens is a sharpy;) ;)....

Alex; Like that hand held idea a lot but apart from blind, you need to be more bold than blind to go for that. My "Arachnophobia" won't let me doing that. But for macro there is no other way easier to focus than having subject hand held, provided the holder is not having Parkinson's either:D.

These macros are getting more and more interesting. Thanks for sharing the reverse 50mm idea and throwing a headlight in macro section of the forum.

These are the links to the photos
1.bellows
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...=500&ppuser=57
2. Very old lens Tessar 2.8 50mm with No 3 tube
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...=500&ppuser=57
3. canon 75-300 with 31mm ext tube.
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...=500&ppuser=57
4. Canon 75-300 with 31mm ext tube
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...=500&ppuser=57

Christine,

The last one is my favourite. I just screams QUALITY.

Don

Christine: I agree with Don the last shot is beautifully done....The wasp shot is excellent as well.....Alex

Hey there Sassan:).. I only have guts with spiders that are reeeeeally small:D.. I am happy that I contributed a spark to the macro section because it is obvious there is considerable talent here. I hope the macro gear hasn't been sitting collecting dust:) :). What a great bunch of folks you all are.... I am happy to be here.... I have been a bit under the weather the last few days and so I am sorry I have dropped my participation level.... I am excited to take part in the fun..... I am just starting to come out of the haze now and I will get some of my macro images resized for posting.... I have taken a few over the last couple of days..... I love the fact that Don has shown what the direct reversed lens will do with the right set up and settings and I am looking forward to working more with mine....Anyway Thanks.... I appreciate being welcome.....Alex

Yesterday I had the opportunity to try out a true Macro lens a sigma 105mm, I was very impressed with the build and ease of use. Today I took some photos of the same flower with my cheap alternative the Canon 75-300 with the 13mm and 31mm ext tubes. It is a little harder to focus than the true macro but I am quite impressed with the results although there is a lot less DOF. There has been no sharpening done on either of the photos its as they came out of the camera, cropped and saved.

Left photo. Sigma at F8 1/60s
Right photo. Canon 75-300 13mm+31mm F7.1 1/125s

I have only just found this thread and I am impressed by your squidgy insect shots. I can't say that I like Aphids given the damage they cause plants. I had some nice Capsicum baccatum destroyed by the devils. But I digress.

Regarding a reversing adaptor, it depends what you want to do.

If the idea is to reverse one lens, so that the filter end mounts onto the camera, I know that Nikon make one. It is a BR2 if my memory serves me well. Also Jessops (eeek, the seven letter word) sell them, as I bought one and it works. I am sure the Nikon one can be bought new and cheap from FleaBay. Also Speed Graphic are very good for hard to find odds and sods. I think you have a lathe, and you could make one from a body cap, drilled out, and glued to a step up ring.

You might also have meant mounting a reversed lens in front of another lens. I tried that by taking two step up rings, and gluing them together. That is somewhat of a bodge, but it works. I am not sure if it matters if the optical axes are not perfectly aligned.

I like the second one better - the lighting on the first is very flat - was flash used? Also I'm not convinced that there is much difference in the DoF and in fact assuming that they were taken at the same magnification/size in the viewfinder this article on DoF confirms that DoF is independent of focal length and is just a function of focusing distance and aperture.

I'd be interested to know how close that extension tube set up enables you to get compared to the ture macro lens - can you post the full frames of both for comparison?

Gidders here are the full frame photos as requested, unfortunately I can't remember how far away I was with the 105mm, the Canon with converters I was about 6 inches.. I didn't use flash for either, being so close I had to make sure my body wasn't shading the flower, I did take them at the same time of day so the lighting was the same with no clouds about.

Too late for this now Leif as the 80-200 has gone - swapped for the 400. I have though, machined an adaptor to easily use the 50mm enlarging lens on bellows and / or tubes. Just got to make a thin lens hood to fit. That will be easy as I got an old 40.5mm filter for a £1 to provide the threaded section.

Don

I spy with my little eye .........
 

A case of what do you do when it's chucking it down with rain. This fly was plaguing me in the workshop so a change of mission and no way was I going to be able to do a flight shot Christine. :D :p

Thinking back to Alex and the reversed lens idea, I tried that by reversing the 28mm onto the 105mm. Result serious vignetting. Pic attatched. That problem is solved from 200mm onwards. The upside is that auto diaphragm is retained but lens to subject distance is very small. My 200mm is f4 so in todays light focussing was a nightmare.

So in for a penny in for a pound and I dragged out an old Sigma 24mm that has not been used since the 80's. Reversed this gives pretty impressive magnification.

Field of view in the viewfinder is 10mm edge to edge. Lens to subject distance is around 1 1/2 inches. Dof is no more than a couple of millimeters. Lighting is a problem, as is not scaring the subject. At least Nikon have a lever system for the diagphragm so I was able to stop the lens down to f16 and use the lever to open the lens up while focussing. Focussing was done by moving the camera in and out. Flash on half power ( flash duration 1/1100 sec ) ensured sufficient speed to freeze the shot.

Don

Well done Don.
Definitely time well spent and worth all the hassle.
To me nothing like bringing back to life some of those old gadgets that are left out of sight.
Another thing that needs a two thumbs up is your clean sensor that has surprisingly no dust.
Congratulation on all counts.

Wow! Don they are fantastic kicks my flying shots out the window, the clarity and detail, the setup has picked out is amazing. I keep saying I will get a reversing ring but haven't got round to getting one yet. I am going to do some surfing and see what I can find.

Don was the flash on or off camera and was it just the one flash used?
Again incredible detail

Christine,

As you have a zoom then a ring to reverse a lens on that is probably the best starting point. My setup with a reversed 24mm straight onto the camera presents several challenges.

Huge magnification = minimal dof and focusing is a bit of a stuggle.
Lens to subject distance around 1 1/2 inches = only usable on subjects that are not easily scared. I was really lucky with the fly in that respect.
Lighting, but you have that sorted as your homemade ringflash is perfect, even a small diffusion panel will work well with a pop-up. My snag with the X is I have no pop-up, so have to use a hotshoe mounted flash and I am still playing with the best diffusion method for that.

Now that ' Lucky ' has had his out of the cage and flyaround session, I will look in my lean to and see if there is anything else to take a pic of.

Outside ... its raining, so I'll give that a miss for now.:(

Don

Don, I can get hold of a 58mm reversing ring to attach direct to the camera very easy from this country, but not the 58-58 they only have them in china that is the one I would prefer to get then it can be put back to back with my other lens. I will keep searching as they are not expensive only around £4.99.

No Christine, you don't want to buy reverse mount adapter ring. You lose that zoom that functions as focusing ring for you.
Your best bet is the one Alex initially gave us as link. "Kirk". Very reputable company that stands proudly by their products. I have made several purchases from them after getting the link from Alex and have been completely satisfied with all. Here is the link if you don't have:

LINK

Remember that the ring is (gay:D) Male to male and now your challenge is to find the 2 right size outer rim lenses that fit to each other. If none available, don't worry, you can get the right "Step up" or "Step down" to make the needed bridge.

Also if you are into DIY thingies (& possibly messes) you may want to get a help from my best and last resort friend, "Duck Tape" that can fuse two cheaper (Emphasis on cheap) lenses:). I would rather strongly suggest buying from Kirk though and remember the fine prints, so fine that can not be read on this page: Should something go wrong following my advise on duck tape, I am not responsible.:)

Well another grim day weatherwise here so I settled for a pic as promised to Lesley of the flash set up for the fly pic.

To give a better idea of the magnification I found a fly about 8mm long ( don't know what it is ) that I took side on to show the limited dof at f16. I did not persue further images as being basically black it is hard to show any interesting detail.

For Christine I did the edge of a £2 coin which is posted full frame, to give some idea of the magnification. This was taken with D100 and diffused pop-up flash at f22. Diffusion was a bit of kitchen towel taped to the end of the lens and loosly folded back and taped to the top of the pop-up.

Don

Christine,

The BIG difference between Alex's method and mine are :

Alex uses a zoom attatched normally to the camera with a lens reversed onto that. The significant advantage is that you can use the zoom function to focus, and you are always viewing at open aperture.

Mine is the cheapo alternative but a lot trickier, and requires a lens with lever operated diaphragm. You have to set the lens to the taking aperture f16/f22 and then use a finger to on the lever to open the lens diaphragm for focussing. As the only zoom I now have is 28-105 it will suffer the same vignetting shown in the last pics I posted.

For your zoom you have the 75-300 or 80-400 but I do not know if you have access to a lens to reverse onto the zoom. Or are you going to do a raid on Joe's kit bag.:)

If you post the filter thread sizes it may help in comming up with a solution.

Don

Sorry for not replying sooner but had a bad couple of days buying a new Hi Fi, its a long story but we are on our third and that has to go back.:( Another faulty one.

Sassan, thanks for the link I will check it out. I have seen a few for sale in the states through ebay and one from china so will probably go that route but it will take a few weeks to get here. I will have to be patient.

Don, I was thinking of using my 75-300 which has a 58mm thread and the kit lens the 18-55 which also has a 58mm thread. I have tried to hand hold the lens on the end and it does work, I just need the reversing ring.

Christine,

Try ' coupling ring ' I see SRB do them for £21:95 so bound to be loads cheaper on the net.

New Hi-Fi, Jamies pics getting to you. :D :D :D

Don

Christine,

Another option is two 58mm Cokin filter adaptor rings araldited together.

Don

I tried that Don, but the araldite gave under the weight, good job I had it over a chair cushion.:D.

I have ordered a 58mm to 58mm from china it only comes to £4.65 inc p&p just have to wait now for it to arrive, probably a couple of weeks.

Another missed opportunity there Don you could be knocking these up by the dozen in your workshop :D

Don, I remembered today that I have two 58mm adapter rings for the cokin P system, very easy to put back to back with duck tape to make a reversing ring. I wish I had remembered I had these before spending all of £4.65:D for the proper thing.
I have tried to take some photos with the 18-55 reversed on the end of the 75-300 but to get them focused is a nightmare.:( I don't think I will be doing this very often. It took quite a while to find the right combination of the two lenses and then the maximum distance away was about 1".
I haven't given up as I have a canon 49mm to eos fit adapter so with duck tape I can now attach one of the 58mm adapter rings and just reverse the 18-55 and give that a go.

1st photo un-cropped
2nd photo cropped

Christine,

I have just looked at Photozone review of your 18-55. That suggests best performance is at 35mm setting. If you reverse that onto the 75-300 at that setting and then use the zoom function of the 70-300 to get focus. Nightmare to focus yes, as by now as you have discovered dof is non existant and even finding the subject in the viewfinder is hard enough. The uncropped image suggests you were closer to the 70mm end. Very similar to my try with the 105mm. I found that had gone by the time 200mm was used. Do you still have an old 50mm that you can reverse on the 70-300 as f2.8 will give more light for focussing.

Well done for giving it a go. ;)

I am still playing with various combos for ease of use, and todays results will follow in a minute.

Don

Two shots from today as I try to sort my best kit option out. Reversed 24 can be a bit of a nightmare in use. At least it had finally stopped raining apart from a mid afternoon thunderstorm. In both instances flash at full power was used, and due to the slightly cumbersome nature of the set up in each instance with the flashguns and bracketry the camera was on a monopod.

The fly was taken with 55 micro + 28 tube and 2x converter. Shown near enough full frame. Shown warts and all ( no NR ) ISO 500 at f16 with Metz flash and diy soft bowl.

Legless the spider, was a quite different tack. 55 micro and tubes and bellows at 150mm ( 6" ) extension. ISO 200 at f16 with SB80-DX on side mounted bracket. Despite the extension I was able to reduce ISO to 200 to get f16 so this has serious advantage over the Fly set up. The spiders body is about 5mm in length to give an idea of its size.

Now all I want is a fairly still day as we had 12mph constant windspeed, and they danced in and out of the viewfinder so getting focus was a major problem.

Don

Don, I have done a couple with just the 18-55 lens reversed, quite pleased with the result except having no control over DOF. I will see if I can find some way of attaching the old tessar lens to the adapter. I will then be able to stop it down once I have focus.

Now thats impressive Christine. Got you hooked now. :D :D :D

The obvious question, and maybe Sassan might know, is there a means of stopping the lens down. Lucky for me Nikon is a lever system but I believe Canon is electronic.

Don

Don, yes it is electronic, the tessar is manual I will give it a go in daylight tomorrow and see how it works out.