Advice on 35mm to buy for photography class
 

Hello, i am going to be in my school photography class next semester. For the class i need a working 35mm. i was looking into buying a nikon F5. i am only willing to spend about $200. but i dont know which would work best does anyone have any advice? if so please share. Thanks

Hello shutterflyD50,

Assuming from your username that you have a Nikon D50, it would make sense to buy another Nikon that will take compatible lenses. I'm not familiar with the Nikon system so cannot advise of specific models that meet this criteria.

The main factor to consider for the photography class would be to get a model that offers full manual exposure mode - as a minimum. Certainly photography classes here in the UK insist on the students using cameras which have manual exposure control. The good news is, the vast, vast majority of 35mm SLRs will have this feature.

Having just had a look on ebay, there's plenty of choice for your $200 budget as there's plenty of people off-loading their film gear as they switch to digital.

Something to look for/ask the seller is about the condition of the light seals around the rear door and around the viewfinder screen. On older film cameras the foam seals used to keep light out can sometimes perish and go sticky or even crumble away. It will probably not be a problem, but it's worth checking.

Hope this helps and someone more familiar with the Nikon system can come along and offer more specific model advice later.

Regards,

Duncan

I would also go for a 'standard' zoom as well to put on the body if it does not come with one.

I echo Duncan's comment.
I don't know why you are interested in film cameras as most classes are now switched to Digital for the very obvious convenience and low overall cost they offer but if you must:

- A top student camera of all time was Pentex K1000.

- If you have to stay with Nikon, I again suggest a very manual oriented body. Either FM or FM-2 that you should be able to find them at half of the price you mentioned.

- The other option you have to both stay with Nikon, yet have the pleasure of both worlds, digital and manual, is to go for one of those bodies that emerged out on the transient era of film and digital. I am talking of hybrids such as Kodak 2000e AP, Kodak 420 or 460 that are merge of Nikon N90 bodies with a replacement digital back by Kodak that can be removed and go back to film version. They were made early 90s and were miracles of their time, offered for $10000 to 25000 but now a days you should be able to find them for about $100-200. The key problem is to find one that comes complete with working battery, charger, film back etc.
If you like to invest more you can go for hybrids of Nikon F5 and Kodak's much better sensors such as Kodak DCS620/Nikon F5 professional digital camera that has 2 MP sensor or DCS660 that comes with 6Mega Pixel sensor. Beware that battery and charger on the later model, if not supplied with the camera may cost you equal of the camera itself if not more. So again key is to buy all in one package.

My advise: Pentax K1000 or Nikon FM-2

Never having been through a photography class I am not sure what it will cover. A few details of what the course covers would be helpful.

Totally agree with Sassan re Pentax K1000. To stay with the Nikon Mount if you have a D50, then FM or FM2 are good bets. I have owned FM's in the past and can vouch for their bullet proof build quality and ease of use.

Differences between the FM and FM2.

FM shutter speed range 1sec to 1/1000sec with flash sync 1/125sec.
FM2 shutter speed range 1sec to 1/4000sec with flash sync 1/200sec, upgraded on FM2n to 1/250sec.

Both cameras are totally manual and rely on batteries for light meter only. A really nice grip/motor drive is the MD12. I suggest not getting the earlier MD11.

Within the same family as the FM's is the FE and FE2. Both of these have an electronic shutter so are totally battery reliant.

The Nikon F5 is an all bells and whistles job, but a bit overkill unless you intend shooting film for some time to come.

Lenses abound on the used market, and the camera may well come with a 50mm f1.8 attatched.

Don

Having looked at the Nikon lens compatibility chart here:
http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html
I can see that there's some fairly significant restrictions on using the older lenses on your D50 (assuming that you have a D50), or using the D50 lens on an FM/FE body. Under these circumstances, I can understand why the K1000 is being recommended. The Pentax K1000 is bullet proof (I have one), can be had - complete with 50mm 'standard' lens - for well under your $200 budget and will hold its value well so you could sell it again for the same kind of money as you paid for it after you've finished your class, if you wanted. If you go down the Pentax route and are looking at body+lens combinations on offer, the f/1.7 or f/1.4 50mm lenses are better than the more common f/2 lens, but the f/2 is no slouch and not to be disregarded. Here's an example

Regards,

Duncan

Is the F5 film, i thought it was film but you said it was 2 mp sensor this was the camera i was looking at because of the fact i will be using it for landscaping and bird photography the shutter speen is 1/8000 thats pretty good but i dont know

The F5 is a film camera, and as implied by Don, also rather overkill for your needs. It may well have a maximum shutter speed of 1/8000, but this is not really an important factor to be considering for the kind of use you are going to be putting the camera to. Apart from anything else, you have to have a LOT of light, a very fast lens, and very fast film to be able to make use of such a high shutter speed. For landscapes and birding this is unlikely to be the case.

If this doesn't make much sense, it may be useful to read this thread:
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...read.php?t=125
It's unlikely that you are ever going to have enough light to be able to use 1/8000th, especially with a lens that's big enough for birding. For landscapes you won't be using film or apertures that are fast enough to push the shutter speed up to 1/8000th.

Regards,

Duncan

I think a touch of confusion is creeping in here or is it just me.

From the first post which identifies a requirement for a working 35mm camera for a photography class. As digital cameras come in a range of formats I have to assume that the term 35mm refers to a FILM camera. To my knowledge only Leica produced a hybrid ( Leica R8 and R9 ) and these are mega bucks machines so NO 35mm FILM camera can be converted to digital unless you have the resources available to the likes of NASA who had this done with F4's. Link http://www.nikonweb.com/nasaf4/


The first critical thing here is to establish with the photography class is if the working 35mm camera HAS to be FILM.

If my assumption is correct and it has to be film, then the recommendations given stand, particularly in view of your budget. If digital is OK then I assume from your signature that you already have a D50 so your $200 can go towards a lens.

I will take a moment to clear up any confusion you may have over the F5, sensors and mp.
When Kodak started producing digital cameras in the 1990's they used modified Nikon F90 and later F5 bodies as the chassis for their cameras.
These cameras are digital ONLY. I have no idea how many were produced but relative to today they were seriously expensive. Sassans comment re batteries and chargers is also highly relevant. Technology moves on so this is not current kit.

Don

Don;
Yes I was talking about film cameras for class, and yes talking of cheap cameras at least for todays price, though they used to worth a fortune (Price of mid to full size car, when introduced early in 90s) and again Yes, You are partly correct I am partly wrong.

Here is the quote for Nikon N90 version, hybrid by Kodak into digital form that is interchangeable and therefore a true hybrid.

" you can remove the Kodak Digital back and revert back as a standard N90/F90/N90s/F90(x) camera. "

If you need additional info please use this
LINK
Check the second paragraph under red "Please Note", third line.

Same goes for the older versions such as AP 2000e that Kodak built for Associated Press (So called AP) by using film chassis of Nikon N90, also interchangeable for film usage when digital Kodak back is removed and original Nikon back is added.

As for F5 digital version or Kodak DCS 6XX , 7XX, as owner of one, I should have known better, but the back looks not to be interchangeable with the original film back of F5. More info
HERE

Price of these cameras are very very cheap these days so a good opportunity for anyone interested in collecting to grab one but the conditions that they come with varies significantly between them.

On F5 models, Nikon's 3 digit model number can be utilize to know the MegaPixel of the camera, i.e. the 10th value signifies the MP. For eg 660 has 6 MP Kodak sensor and 720 has a 2 MP.

But ShutterFly don't forget that these cameras take only RAW pictures that need special handling to see the picture, far more complex that todays DSLRs so not a really good approach to go with digital cameras. I strongly recommend to have a full manual, battery non-dependent camera body for class if you need one again either Pentax K-1000 or Nikon FM/FM-2 and then have a new, trouble free DSLR for most of your real experiences with the photography as we know it today (A lot faster, cheaper and easier that before to master all aspects of photography).
Well if you go for one and down the road need assistant for processing the RAW image of older Nikon/Kodak camera, ask and will walk you through.

Duncan:
I need to check with you compatibility list as from my experience, I could virtually put up any old Nikon Lens on my son's D50 with no problem (I am talking of those old glasses that don't have color F stops in tiny form close to body as initially when Nikon was making mechanical outside F stop coupling to lens, view finder did not have a reading window for F stop, I guess Don is possibly the only one who can understand what I say in a nostalgics way :))(And I am bring age into this, for the record, just experience):D.
The only issue is unlike introductory Canon bodies (XT/XTi), Nikon's D50 does not offer the convenience of AP shooting, so old lenses can be used only in Full Manual mode (Not a problem for a student interested in photography or a very experience photographer). Other models like D70 or D80 do not suffer from this.

That made me laugh Sassan. You going digital while I was still worrying about dependance on batteries hence using the F2. :D :D

Re lenses. Pre AI are a problem on digital bodies. I have to chop a tree today but tomorrow I will take a pic of the D100 lens mount and a pre AI lens flange to explain why.

Time taken chopping the tree will give time for my flash capacitors to re form as I have been out of the loop for so long. :p

Don

You haven't even mentioned the Nikon D1 series cameras, whilst relating digi back to the film F5.....or would that be adding 'unneccessaries' to the thread! lol. :p

A 35mm film SLR camera with a std zom or std 50mm lens...for under $200....the choice is massive....
there aren't many secondhand film SLR's that fetch more than $200 now!
My personal recommendation for a student course with a budget in mind would be to go for a low end model with a manual mode, but one that you know isn't potentially 35+ years old! (which rules out the Pentax K1000 or FM)...either that or have proof that the camera you purchase has been serviced etc and isn't likely to require binning halfway through your course.
Yes a Nikon F5 is a marvelous camera...but due to it's type ...the one's that are under $200 are likely to be ex'hack' units, having been used day in day out, then put on a shelf to gather dust when the office switched to digi only. There are some almost romantic notions about owning a camera that would've cost a fortune...I've been tempted myself at some before...but the head has got to rule the heart!
Canon did loads of Eos film cameras...you could do a lot worse than the later 3000v cameras, some of the later Pentax film MZ series were ok too. ...or how about a Nikon F55 or 75?


just my thoughts thrown into the melting pot.

Good luck with your course
cheers
joe

I started out taking a couple of pics to graphically explain this, then thought I should probably do a thread that covers the ins and outs of the Nikon mount.
So I now have more pics to take.

A bit of a diversion today as the sun is shining and so I feel a trip to the coast comming on. :)

Don

Fair points there Joe. I learnt on old mechanical manual only cameras so only two controls to think about ( shutter speed and aperture ) once film speed had been selected. I totally missed out on electronics in film cameras ( F3 has minimal ) until I went digital, so have no experience of that age. Canon T90, Nikon F90 and F801 ring bells as being well regarded in their time.

I see shutterflyD50 has now a wanted ad for an F5. Not too sure about prices in the states as they are always well below those here in the UK, but a $200-$300 F5 has probably had far more use than any of the amateur models you mention. Amateurs using a few rolls of film a year v pros using 10+ per day.

Gone are the days when rub marks could give some indication of useage and no way to check the shutter count. ;)

Don

I was also looking into buying the Nikon F100, also i know that i would hardly use the 1/8000 shutter speed but at 8 fps that is very useful for bird photography. and i would deffinatly not be using that sutterspeed for landscaping.

The 8 fps was the F5 but at 5fps thats still pretty good.

I would go digital because you learn quicker and it is more exciting with immediate results. Using film would seem very old fashioned to many younger folk therefore boring. Can't remember the early Nikon digital models but a Canon D60 and lens would be a modest outlay and still give good results plus no film expense. Same for early Nikon equivalents.

I have a Nikon D50 with 70-300mm lens i need the camera for a photography class i am a sophmore in high school.

For this usage, the fps you seem to be concentrating on is of very, very little importance indeed. If you are going to use even 5fps, that's a whole lotta film, and associated costs to buy and develop/print.

You mention that you want to use the camera for birding. My own experience with such subjects is that you get a lot of duff shots relative to the number of 'keepers'. With a film camera, this is expensive, you'll have a lot of cost tied up in wasted film. Also bear in mind that with a film camera, a 300mm lens won't give you as much of a frame filling effect as you'll get from using a 300mm lens on your D50; this is because the D50 uses a smaller sensor than a frame of 35mm film. This will probably mean you will have even less 'keepers' when using your film camera for birding.

For your photography class, you would be better off saving your money for a better lens that can be used on your D50, and buying something cheap/basic for use with the class.

Hope this helps.

Duncan

Nothing much to add to Duncans post but this link is good for showing the comparison of 35mm full frame v DSLR with various focal lengths.
Link http://www.tamroneurope.com/flc.htm

Don

Try buying an old Nikon F5 at one of your local photography dealers rather than from ebay or other online merchants. Just in case if the camera doesn't work or have some fault you can return it with ease without any postage and handling costs.

If you want a 35mm film camera and you want Nikon then it has to be the FM3a hands down. It is now a bargain (for obvious reasons). Built like a tank and fully manual. The only way to learn.

The last roll of Kodachrome was recently developed and it made the news. If you plan on going to a career in photo conservation the time spend shooting film and developing it and making prints is a worthwhile activity. If you are not making such plans the class makes as much sense as a computer class where they use punch cards and teach you to program in Cobal.

Hard to believe that there are so many Luddites in the teaching ranks. Digital photography is the best thing that every happened for teachers and students alike. In particular having the EXIF data for every shot to know exactly what setting were used, the point of focus, and color temp are invaluable. When I started out as a student I was using 4x5 sheet film and having to take notes on every picture taken which was a whole lot less. Fewer shots means fewer opportunities to experiment and fewer opportunities to learn.

I do underwater photography and whereas with film it might take several years to become a competent photographer, today with digital it can be accomplished in days. Some of what you learn will be useful in general but a lot of time will be wasted and opportunities to learn delayed by learning from a teacher still stuck on film.

Unfortunately photography is considered a soft A-Level nowadays which is why so many colleges in England have dropped it. Out of all the colleges in South Yorkshire only Sheffield offer it and the uptake isn't great so its impossible for the head of department to justify to the principal the need for £40k to spend on a room full of iMacs loaded with CS5. Its certainly not the tutor calling the shots.

There are those colleges that offer evening courses and these are always expensive with NO concessions. If this is the case and they are teaching people a redundant skill set such as those based on film photography, well I would be contacting trading standards!