Tips needed for Wedding photo's
 

My Daughter is getting Married in June she doesn't want the fuss of having to book a professional photographer she wants to keeps thing low key. There will be four of us taking photo's so as we can all be in the shots at some point.
I will be needing tips on taking wedding photo's with a digital. Help with the type of lenses to use, settings or anything anyone can come up with.

Christine I will be watching this thread with great interest.A friend has asked me to take the photos for her daughters wedding in June.I am only concerned I may get "red eye" in the shots if there are lots of artificial lights.

Tips for wedding photos?

It isn't worth the hassle - leave it to the experts! If you make a mistake you'll never live it down!

My though exactly - The last wedding I took shots at they had a pro but I just went around and took candid shots. Some of them were preferred because they picked up things the formal groups did not. In my case a number of the children were in Polish traditional dress.

The question is: "What are the expectations of the bride and groom?" It is their day, what do they want out of it?

It all depends on what your daughter and her husband (to be) want. If they don't want the professional album set to show all their friends, then there's no need to get a pro in. If they do want the nice glossy album with all the usual set-piece poses, etc., then you are on a hiding to nothing by doing it yourself. It really isn't worth the risk.

As the bride's mother, you are going to have a lot on your plate regardless of any other duties. Adding in the stress and hassle of being the photographer, whilst trying to sort out any other issues that need your attention (there will be something!), is just asking for grief that you could do without.

People don't realise just what a specialist job wedding photography is. It is a highly skilled job to come up with the nice pics that everyone expects. It is a long way from the pictures you will get by wandering around taking candids and snaps.

If the bride and groom only want candids and snaps, then do the job. If they want the nice glossy album, leave it to the pros (and take candids and snaps yourself anyway).

Duncan

Duncan.

Red eye is caused by light parallel to lens axis i.e. directly behind or in front of lens. A great number of artificial lights from ceiling will not show as red eye. On camera flash will without doubt cause red eye but most cameras have a red eye reduction mode where preflash reduces the iris of eye before the exposure is taken.

Everyone who has a 'serious' camera and interest in photography has at least one 'friend' like this! The assumption is, usually, that just owning a good camera will produce good photos, they'll save some money on an already expensive occasion and you'll provide the photos in lieu of a wedding present!

Most pro photographers worth the name will have learned their trade by starting off working alongside an established pro either as an assistant or by 'shadowing' them, only going solo when they've gained enough experience of a variety of situations.

As they get more jobs they'll learn more about dealing with people in order to get the group photos of family, etc., taken before everyone drifts away to the reception. They'll also get to know all the churches, chapels, registry offices, etc. in the local area so that they're prepared for those with less than attractive frontages or where the angle of the sun isn't very favourable at certain times of day. They'll know of alternative spots 'just round the corner' where better photos can be taken.

They will also be aware of which vicars are more strict on what can be taken inside the church, whether they allow flash, for instance.

White wedding dresses worn by the bride and bridesmaids and dark-coloured suits worn by the groom present a challenge to any photographer. Weddings shot on film are best tackled with one of the lower-contrast 'portrait' films - the pro will know how to get the best from these films as opposed to the normal ones available over the counter. Digital cameras are not good at contrasty subjects, they may need the lower contrast settings activated in the 'menu' - again, the good pro will have gained experience in getting the best from the camera at all settings.

You will have to 'know' all this without any previous experience and be expected to come up with something special as they're your friends, not just another client!

In many ways, taking the actual photos is the easy bit - if you're not fully familiar with the workings of your camera then don't even think about it! But if you're quite happy knowing how to use it without thinking then your personality in getting everyone's attention is more important.

The real success comes from 'Preparation' and 'Presentation.' Presentation, of course, means handing over an album full of high-quality photos with a printed form for anyone to re-order any shots, etc.

Preparation - all the work needed beforehand - is the key to success. Checking-out all those locations, the angle of the light at the right time of day, knowing how to use fill-in flash if harsh overhead sunlight causes deep shadows in peoples' eye-sockets, under noses, chins, etc.

As well as the usual posed group photos you'll want those extra shots that tell the whole story of an important day - can you get a shot of the bride at home, perhaps all dressed-up ready but just putting the finishing touches to her make-up in the dressing table mirror. An intimate moment with her father, who is about to give her way, just before they go off to the church, maybe..

But, you'll also need to be at the church in order to get a shot of a nervous groom shaking hands with his best man just before going into the building.

You'll need to arrange with either the bride's mother or the maid of honour to be on hand to arrange the bride's dress during the formal shots (don't forget to make sure the groom has his tie and collar neat and straight as well).

Have the groom's mates organised something such as an archway of golfclubs or cricket bats - if so, make sure you've got to know the 'ring leader' so you can make sure the shot is set-up properly and not just done whilst you're engaged elsewhere. If the groom is abirdwatcher you can get his birding mates to take their bins along and focus on the happy couple - if the bride has nice legs they can train their bins on the leg that has the 'blue' garter around - yes, don't forget the 'something old, new, borrowed and blue' and 'incorporate' them into your shots at some stage (very professional, this one!).

Do you still want to do the wedding photos;) ;) ;)

Oh, and don't forget to make alternative arrangements in case it's chucking it down with rain on the day...

Thank you Duncan,Stephen and Adey for your help it is appreciated. What I am really after is help and guidance in setting up a digital camera not film for reasonable wedding shots, rough exposer settings for the white wedding dress, is it better to underexpose or overexpose, spot metering for the dress, that type of thing Is it better with digital indoors to use a tripod and not use flash and correct colour on the computer. Just basic things to get reasonable exposers. With most non professional cameras being a 1.6 crop what would be a good size lens to use. I would like this thread to be useful starting point for others, not just me, to come too for guidance on the above things rather then having to keep asking.

We're not doing a very good job in deterring anyone, then :)

Not really Adey, we like the challenge.

Despite being a die-hard jpeg shooter, I think this is one occasion where using raw capture will have benefits. Before everyone jumps on this and says "all the pro wedding photographers shoot jpeg", I say yes, they have tight time limits to work to in order to get the proofs out. They also have a lot of experience in how to shoot weddings (one hopes).

As Adey has said, white dresses and black suits are a nightmare for light meters. They also make it very difficult to get the exposure compensation right - what's right for one part of the scene will not be right for the other. Using raw capture will give greater flexibility to apply exposure compensation and correct the white balance after the event. Remember, you can always brighten things up if they are a bit dark. Once you've burnt out detail from over-exposure you can never get it back. I'd suggest spot metering from a white dress, not applying any major exposure compensation, perhaps 0 or 0.3 positive compensation and letting it look a bit grey to begin with. This can easily be brightened up in post-processing and you won't have blown out the detail.

You ask about using flash/tripod for indoor shots. Using flash is a fine art in itself, just ask Don. If you are using built-in flash units, you will not get anything like the same results as a pro using off-camera units and reflectors etc. Unless you have the gear and/or a lot of experience in this area, prepare to be disappointed. Another reason to leave this kind of things to the pros in my book. I'll leave it to someone more experienced with flash to expand on this area. You'll also find just about every pro will use a tripod for indoor and outdoor shots, this is just plain common sense for those staged shots where you have control over the subjects.

Which lenses to use? Depends very much on your style and what kind of pictures the bride and groom are expecting. Large parties need either wide angles (and a remarkably large number of steps back), or superb organisational skills to squeeze people in. I think you'd use a variety of focal lengths, depending on what kind of picture you are taking. Overall, a typical 18-55 kit lens (on a 1.6 crop factor dSLR) is likely to cover most of the kind of situations you are likely to need.

Duncan

P.S. There's an extensive article in this month's "Digital Photo" magazine, specifically on shooting weddings.

Thank you Duncan your explanation is very easy to follow. Fortunately I will have plenty of chances to try some of these things out before the big day. Shooting in Raw is fine by me as that is what I normally use anyway for all the mistakes I am bound to make I think this is the best option.

Christine,

I will start with a couple of questions.

Church or Registry Office ?

At the wider end what lenses do you have ? Can't end up doing a Manjeet fishtank job with your bigma.:D

As Duncan says flash will be important. Ability for off camera flash essential. What flash kit have you got ?

This is definately a shooting RAW job. Have you tried RAW + JPEG Basic before. As this is not a high speed shooting environment it may help in deciding the editing regime, just takes up a bit more card space ?

I'll stop before I get carried away.:D

Don

Don.

Neither Church or Registry its in a licenced Stately home, a very small room to seat about 40, not very bright.

Lenses I own a Canon 18-55, 75-300 and 170-500.

Flash built in flash, and a very cheap slave plus another slave http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...9&d=1135985441.

I have not tried shooting Raw+Jpeg so will give that a go tomorrow.

Christine

Gosh,I guess I will have the prospective bride read this thread!!!.My friend just wants some casual shots,as it is her daughters 2cnd marriage(so I guess "white" will hopefully not be on the agenda!!!).She does not want the hassle of sorting through 100 odd photos to decide which to keep etc.
Lenses which could be used,Tamron 28-300,a very clear lens when used with a 300d,a 60mm Macro(not sure as to this one-I have been practising on the dog!!),and the 18-55 kit lens.The 20d has gone off to be cleaned,and the 350d will follow when the 20 returns
My main problem is judging the distance,being unable to crouch down to take shots of bridesmaids(I think the brides 2yr old daughter ,may be a bridesmaid),and also the main query,which basic setting to use.RAW is definitely out,I have not used this prog yet,so whether to use,P,auto,or portrait,and whether or not to use the 550 EX flash unit(I think that is the one) or the cameras own built in.Someone did suggest it may be better to have the unit pointing in the air,rather than bent over.
I will suggest to the bride that I send the prints to Photobox,and I am only accepting a token donation for our local Inshore Rescue.
I am just not very good with indoor shots,and I think determining which prog to use is the main query.Just wish I had someone to practise on,apart from the dog-who is black!!.

Large hotel in the Lake District,is the venue,no,not a church thankfully,all my Carol service shots were a disaster,red-eye,and blurry.I was at the back of the church using a Canon 70-300 on full zoom.the Tamron is a much better lens,well it seems to be,when attached to the 300/350.The shots are crystal clear,esp outdoor ones,and ones in good light indoors.

Christine,

18 - 55 will be fine. My opinion, loads of kit will only increase stress levels and result in missed pics.

Forget about built in flash. With a guide No. around 12 it is just no powerful enough and red eye is almost guaranteed.

Found a pic of your flash side on http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...8&d=1135985434

Bare minimum you need the Stofen attatchment ( the white bit in this pic ) available from Jessops. May need to take your flash there to confirm a fit. http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...0&d=1134942009

If I remember correctly this flash is not TTL. Please confirm that. Latest systems are ' fire and forget ' but older units require a bit of practice. So we may need to tailor advice on this.

Don

Christine, re-read my post, especially this bit: '...if you're not fully familiar with the workings of your camera then don't even think about it...' and decline the invitation to shoot the photos, suggesting that you don't think you can do justice to such an important occasion or something equally diplomatic. Take along a compact camera and just use it on full program mode and do some 'unofficial' shots to supplement the official ones.

Don.
The flashgun is purely a slave gun I couldn't justify buying a TTL one for the odd occasions I would use it. I have made a cover to go over the built in flash for my macro shots. I will probably make one to go on the slave as well, (I am a cheapskate). I do have a grip bracket for the slave so it can be attached at the side of the camera.

Christine,

I cannot do this, but it would be interesting to know if it is beneficial. You should be able to load jpeg basic very quickly. If the numbering is logical with the RAW file you could put a cross on any dud jpegs.

My camera can however do what a lot of todays can't ...... TIFFS. You can have a tea break while the image loads to your card :D

Don

Emmmmmmmmm Kit lens !!!

To keep the noise down your need to shoot at ISO 100

I think your need to beg, steal, borrow or buy a 580EX to light that room.

Some attachment that will bounce the flash off a card. Ceiling maybe too high or wrong colour to bounce off.

As I have not done wedding or similar I am not able to contribute much.

I have done a web trawl and post a link to info on the Canon flash system so there is something for me to refer to. 3 pages long.http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index.html

Also a few tips for the amateur, 2 pages long http://www.all-things-photography.co...aphy-tips.html

Don

Thanks Don there is a lot of reading there but it looks very helfull Thank you.

Christine

Christine,

Have you had a chance to try the RAW + JPEG Basic yet ?

Don

Christine,

Relative power of the flash guns comes into play. As I mentioned, the pop up is low powered and if it is used to trigger the main one on the grip it will only have limited impact on the exposure. I am reminded that Metz used to do a big unit with a secondary flash tube. Worth a few test shots to confirm. Try these without a diffuser at several different distances from your subject.

Don

Hi Christine,

This gets tricky - 2 Christines here and on another thread 2 Stephens. :D

To try to answer your question on flash, it would have to be the 550 EX and not the built in.
Two reasons for that. The built in unit is of very low power, and because of its closeness to the lens axis ' red eye ' becomes a major problem.

I have been reading a bit on the link I posted re Canon flash, and that suggests that flash exposure is controlled by E-TTL II so you do not have to make fancy exposure calculations.

Even if you were to join in taking pictures rather than be the main photographer the best investment you coul make would be the Stofen I described in post 17. That attatched to your 550 EX will give far superior results in comparison to a compact.

My suggestion would be to get the Stofen and practice on ( hope I've got this right ) Barry at a distance and close up.

Which ever way you decide to go that practice will be invaluable.

If you are unsure of my advice you can prove it yourself.
1) Do a series of pics with the pop up.
2) Repeat with the 550 EX. Remember when you look at the shadows there will be softer shadows with the Stofen if you had one.

For these tests set the camera on Program. When you get the pics up on your computer the exif info will tell you what shutter speed and aperture the camera selected.

I will stop there before this becomes a book. :D

Don

Christine,

Two subjects here.

I am not familiar with these lenses but I notice both you and Christine (Saphire) have the 18-55. Ideally you do not want to be changing lenses so that would let out the 60mm Macro. How do these lenses stack up against each other. Distortion / closest focussing / speed.

As you have difficulty crouching down Christine, are you expected to be the only person taking the photographs. If so you really do need to discuss with the bride, her expectations, ie what pics would she like to see.

Touch tricky for me being a guy, ( men often described as being insensitive to these things ) but I would suggest you look at your own wedding pics and look at those that really touch your heart. They will give you as big a clue as any as to what you need to capture from that moment.

Don

Off topic but you can tell I've solved my wireless keyboard and mouse probs.:)

Don

Don. Yes I have had a go with Raw + Jpg it would save a lot of processing if the images don't need any added work except for sharpening the only thing I found the Jpg version was very soft.

The flashguns, I will have a go at various setting and f-stops with the 18-55 lens and keep notes then I can refer to them on the day if needed.

Don and Adey,thanks for your helpful comments.I,ve been reading the links you mentioned.I have not used the 18-55 kit lens,but will give it a go.I can take 2 cameras with a lens on each.
I guess some practise is needed,using different progs,and different lenses.But I will definetly not be climbing a ladder as mentioned in one of the links!!!

Christine,

I was only suggesting JPG Basic as a way of quick sifting through your images. RAW + JPG Fine would be overkill if you always edit in raw.

Is the softness you describe ' unsharp ' . If so that is a good thing as sharpness is best applied as the last processing step. From what I have discovered I cannot understand people complaining about unsharp jpegs out of camera. That is the BEST option. Controlled sharpness to suit the image, applied as the last step, in post processing is the best way to go.

Don

Don the jpg was very unsharp more so than the raw, that was a bit of a surprise because they say the raw files are, as is, nothing added. I expected both images to have been the same as far as sharpness was concerned as I have all in camera setting off.

The one on the right is the jpg

Hi Christine,

Thats a wow for the wrong reason. Very surprised. Was this JPG basic ?

When I suggested this as a method it was to allow for a quick review as they are small file compared to RAW. A bit odd all the same. When you have the time it would be interesting to see whichever jpg mode you used here, shot on its own.

I am really puzzled. :confused:

Don

Hi Don it was on jpg fine, can't figure out what is wrong. I have tried it in jpg on its own and its fine.

Christine

Christine,
By the time we have finished we will know the ins and outs of your camera.

I think from your photo in Who' Who that your camera is the 350D. So I have been to DPR to look at image quality controls.

The review suggests you have 2 settings, Parameter 1, and Parameter 2.
Parameter 1 giving punchy sharp images straight out of the camera.
Parameter 2 sets zero settings for all parameters.

As the in camera processing of the JPG will be after the point that the RAW file is saved I would suggest setting Parameter 1.

So that I know, is your camera the 350D ?

Don

Don sorry, yes it is the 350D I should have said., I have it set on set 1, contrast slider all the way to bottom same with sharpness, saturation 0 middle, colour tone 0 middle. I read in one of the magazines that these where the best settings, they said that the sliders in the middle meant that there was still some sharpening and contrast, taking them below meant there was none at all.

Christine

Christine,

I will have to do a bit of a trawl to understand the range of settings you can apply. For a repeat test try setting all at 0 middle, on set 1.

Don

So many tabs up. So I will post this 350D review as there are some picture examples of various settings, before I loose it.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EXT/EXTA.HTM

See the select a topic drop down box at the top.

Don

Christine,
I should have mentioned if you go to the ' Sample Image ' page and scroll down to the contrast and saturation series. If you click on an image, that will take you to another page with a slightly larger version, but also a link to the full file image.

Don

Thanks Don there is a lot to read.