POTW general discussion thread.
 

:) congrats. But I have a question for the panel and myself included. Why is it that the same people are winning? I looked back since the 1st of January and 8 members have won at least twice, two members have won three times, and one member has won four times. I know all these guys are great at what they shoot but there are people that post and that have great shots that never seem to even be part of the short lists. I really feel that we need to revamp the rule on the POTW contest. That said this week I will be choosing somebody who has not won in the last six months. Sorry if I ruffle any feathers but I feel that we should look beyond our favorites. And I am guilty of this too.

thanks Graham,pleased to get POTW but there is not trickery in these shots ,they really are upside down, a lot of fun to do but at times pretty messy when I get a bit clumsy...

Gidders, this is straight out of camera,except for a level and crop.


Dave598, we used to have a set couple of moderators who did the judging for potw,then it got very slack and no one was giving a potw so we decided to get a panel together for anyone to be on and just take turns for choosing what we liked the best for that week,you will never keep everyone happy.
I didn't realize it had turned out that way...but everyone has different taste, I never choose a picture for the person who took it, always for the photo itself.

I realize that maybe the case but here are those that have won the most in the past Six Months (January 1st, 2016 through July 3rd, 2016)

Tugboat 3 times
Inom 1
Birdsnapper 2 times
dbtaylor 2 times
Mo 3 tirmes
Nigel G 2 times
dfarhrl 1
Edg 2 times
Sassan 3 times
Gbuxu 1
AdeG 2 Times
Norm 1
Robski 4 times
Wolfie 1

I feel that if you win you should not be eligible for at least 2 months to make it fare to all of us. That is what I am going to do with my turn and my turns in the future. But this Sunday anybody who has won between January 1st and July 9th will not be eligible as far as I am concerned because new blood should win. Sorry if this upsets anybody but that is how I feel. If you want me to step down then I will.

Graham: Excellent choice.

Trena: This image has more than one dimension of abstract and sure a very right choice for the POTW. One day I should find out how you do it but may take a long time:)
Congratulations. May we proceed and officially call you "Trena The Abstract Master".

Dave: Long time back, I felt exactly what you feel right now but believe or not, that is not the case. Number of people who actively participate in this site are not too many and wish this would increase significantly to have more variety. As a new member in panel this year (Just like yourself), I must add too, I never look at the name, as stated by Trena or who is my friend or pal. I believe in fairness to all and also believe in my own judgment and what is good picture for one or many reasons and finally what that makes an image more superior compare to the rest. After all this is only a tiny positive feedback and a small taste to the site with no financial or otherwise rewards for the winner. Because the person who choose the winner, changes every week, the Bias in selection is really reduced significantly, if not totally.
The main purpose of this web site is "Gallery". Nothing else. To me, its one of the easiest way to find my older images in an organized and safe way, when I want to, even though I have accounts with numerous other sites. One great feature of this site is the fact that every one is modest and tries to help rather than pull someone by the leg.
And more importantly, please and please inject your ideas into you action as stated regarding your decision on how to choose for this week's winner. After all at the end, one who goes over the POTW gallery, should like all that he / she looks over there, as representative of the Best of that week, rather than questioning all, as to why or what is selected. I would say at least in 30% or more occasions, my choice is the same as what is selected for the week or at least one of the 5 as candidate, therefore I personally believe in fairness of the selection here, specially in this contest.
There are many other activities to the site, including "Games" that if interested, you can participate, such as "What is it?" or even create your own and let others to participate.
I firmly believe all that maters is the members participation and not the winning in this or any other activity of the site. After all we all need to unwind form the harder hours of regular life and this is one great avenue.
A lot of time, the nice participation about a picture is all that drives me to this site and nothing more important than that, when my time is spent is a good and happy way.

Dave598, if your decision is based not on merit, but on somebody deserving their turn, then you should step down.

POTW general discussion thread.
 

I have set up this thread to move the general discussion about POTW away from this weeks winner.

I have to say that I can see both sides of the argument here. There is no doubt that the same people do crop up often on here and perhaps unsurprisingly they are the people whose photos also get lots of views and comments in the gallery. Part of this is down to the quality of the photos but also being a popular member definitely plays a part as people naturally look first at the photos taken by people that they know. While the POTW rarely a choice I would agree with I know this is normally down to personal choice and I would agree that they chosen photos is still a good choice. However we have had some where the decision has been hard to understand and at least one that was clearly chosen due to the poster rather than the photo (this was even stated in the thread). I have also seems some truly stunning photos in the gallery that seem to have totally missed the eye of that weeks selector.

The simple fact is that there is no easy way to choose the POTW. When it was the mods we would quickly get told if we picked the 'wrong' photo, or get messaged if we were late posting a choice. We did try to make sure there was some variety in terms of the winning photographer and also the winning style but with no hard and fast rules. If someone posted a photos that was head and shoulders above the rest it would win even if that poster had won the week before. It is inevitable that the person selecting will be drawn to styles of photo that they like so will make similar selections when it is there turn to choose. While one judge might choose a landscape most times another will have preference for portraits, abstract or wildlife. I think that the judging panel is the best format for this as it does bring some variety to the selection but how ever POTW is chosen you will never make everyone happy.

I do not think it would be wise to impose rules on winning one week making that person ineligible for a set period of time as the best photos deserve to win. However I would encourage those judging to take a close look at some of the less commented on photos each week as sometimes there are some hidden gems (I am sure most if not all already do this). I would also like to say thank you to the panel as I know it can be a tricky process.

Birdsnapper, my decision will not be based on somebody deserving a turn but on what postcardcv said the hidden gems. I have seen several this week alone that are as good as if not better than some of the ones that I have seen win the photo of the week. I was trying to make a point because I feel that most of the winners have been those that post a lot of photos and naturally they get seen a lot. Where as you have some people who post one or two a week or one or two a month and they seem to get over looked. I see three or four this week alone so far that are just as good as Tugboats was this week and they are ones that do not post as much as some of us do.

I went back the past 14 days this morning and saw numerous photos that the poster had only posted one or two that were just as good as some of the ones that have one. And let me say this Birdsnapper as a bird and wildlife photographer I can only hope to someday be as good as you are when it comes to catching the beautiful shots of the plants, animals, and birds. So is my choice going to be based on Merit, very much so. But I just feel that those that do not post in sheer numbers should be looked at a bit closer. And that is what I am going to do this week. Because like postcardcv has said there are hidden gems out there.

Dave - I think you wrong, wrong, wrong!

POTW is just that - the BEST PICTURE OF THE WEEK - something to aspire to

Its a a showcase of the talent of the site, something to encourage passers by to become members. Just because someone won last week, that should not bar them of winning this week.

When I go through the weeks images to make my selection, I'm looking for quality images & I do not look at who has created them. The fact that some of the same names keep cropping up is because they are great photographers!

I agree with Birdsnapper that your choice should be made on merit, the best picture posted in the last week, not on somebody deserving their turn. It's not best picture of the week excluding people that have previously posted great pictures.

OK so different selectors will have different views. I like portraits, Tugboat is an abstract specialist, Ade G likes landscapes, Nigel is a field sports & wildlife expert... but if you look at my selections - they are not all portraits, Ade doesn't choose just landscapes, Nigel & Trena & the others on the panel also choose whatever is the best picture of the past week irrespective of their personal preferences. There is no reason why the same author shouldn't win three ( or four or five) times in a row if their image is judged by different selectors as the best of the week

No 1 I never said it would not be based on merit I see photos all the time that are just as good as some of the ones that have won but I feel that they are over looked but that's my opinion

Okay Gilders number 1 I am not attacking you or anybody else but PLEASE EVERYBODY STOP AND THINK AND READ WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY.

In every photography forum that I have and currently belong to one of the things that is always prevalent is that the old hands get recondition, they are the ones that get all the comments on their photos and they are the ones that win all of the contests. What I am saying is that instead of focusing on the old hands here lets look at some of those that don't post as much, lets look to guide them and lets look to give them recognition that they deserve. Granted Gilders the old hands like Tugboat, and birdsnapper, and dbtaylor, and MO, and Robski, and Sassan take excellent photos. I can only hope to be as good as they are. I said this to birdsnapper earlier in this thread.

I just feel that we as POTW Panel Members should stop and take a good hard look at those that are working to make and produce some fantastic Photos. I have been as a panel member looking very closely all week at all of the photos and several newer or less producing members have photos in my opinion are just as good the ones I have mentioned but yet they always seem to get passed up. We as panel members have to stop and realize that at one time we were in their shoes.

Robski is one of the best wildlife and insect photography is fantastic I can only hope to be as good as you someday.

Tugboat your still life puts photographers to shame, and I work with one who shot commercial still life for 30 plus years before he retired.

Sassan I love your abstract photography, you are the best at. I would never try to do a abstract photo that you have done because it would be a waste of time. You are the best.

AbeG I agree with Gilders that you are one of the best Landscape photographers.

We as photographers have to stop and think, we are all artists. Plain and simple and as artists we should stop and help those that are either just starting out, or who do not have self confidence and we should encourage them.

That said when I look at photos I see ones that I love that may have a technical flaw here and there. Let me use one photo as an example:

http://www.worldphotographyforum.com..._26-6-2016.jpg

The colors are fantastic, the clarity is beautiful, to me the only thing that would be a downer is that the background (the sky could be a little sharper and more detailed) but this is a great photo. (and that is based on my thoughts and what catches my eye).

Another example is the following by robski

http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...m/TV2A4333.jpg

as a lover of nature this is a shoe in to win the POTW for me, yes I said it, but I feel that we as panel members have a obligation to help and guide and lead those that take a great photo but not as great as what robski has given us. You never know if you stop and take a good hard look at one that may not be your favorite you might just change your mind.

Gidders you said the following:

POTW is just that - the BEST PICTURE OF THE WEEK - something to aspire to

YES YOU ARE VERY RIGHT, but you know what IN MY OWN OPINION what harm does it do to take a minute and take a good hard look at those that do not post as much. I frankly have found on other sites that photos that are excellent and fantastic but yet passed over.

I wanted to add four more photos as an example but the system said I could not that I was limited.

Okay with out looking them up and assuming that you had four choices for the POTW which one would you choose. PLEASE take a look at each photo without looking to see who posted the photo and then comment below. This is a exercise and hopefully will prove my point.

Choose your favorite with the following numbers above each photo:

Number 1

http://www.worldphotographyforum.com.../IMG_2341a.jpg

Number 2

http://www.worldphotographyforum.com.../Ladybird3.jpg

Number 3

http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...reflection.jpg

Number 4

http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...thbank_WPF.jpg

Dave, from the photos that you've posted, I can see where coming from.
Although I don't know how members of the judging panel think, let me explain my thoughts on the photos.
Four knights. Lack of context: could be taken anywhere, just four guys dressed as knights. No compositional merits: just in a straight line does nothing for me. I would have considered taking from the side. No drama: perhaps have the knights lower their lances, coming to a point in the FG - would have added interest and given lead-in lines.
A competent record shot only.
Butterfly Nice sharp image with the insect set off well against blurred BG.
Would put it on shortlist for POTW, but would need to consider other photos.
Two flowers One is in bright sunlight and overexposed whilst the other is in shade and underexposed.
No photographic merit.
Two ladybirds (ladybugs?) Good angle - at the insects' level. However, only the face of the upper insect is in focus and the grass obscures the lower one.
A good attempt but not POTW material.
Beautiful Mum Very good concept and work. I can forgive the slightly overexposed mug given the lighting conditions.
A worthy contender for POTW.
Night scene The lighting and colours grab the attention. Vertical lines are vertical. The buildings at the side nicely frame the BG and keep the eye in the image.The road leads the eye to the BG.
On balance this would be my POTW - just beating 'Mum'.

out of the 6 photos above
I would choose
Night scene, for my 1st choice, stands out and just love it. that would be my POTW choice.
and then I would choose the
4 knights as my second choice, because I found that one very different for me
then I would choose the
butterfly as my 3rd choice.
then the
two ladybirds as my 4th choice.

To be honest I don't scan through every image in the gallery. I tend to look in at least once a day at the front page and click on subjects which I find of interest or an image which I feel has some merit. I will admit I am the world's worse for leaving comments. So if I do leave a comment you can feel assured it had hit the spot for me. To be fair at least a third of the images are best described as record shots of subjects which maybe of interest to some but rarely lend themselves to great composition or wall art.

The 4 knights is an interesting and unusual scene and maybe there was the opportunity to get a better composition and interesting angle.

My butterfly, yes may go on somebodies short list and may of won if there was not any stiff competition. I personally did not think it was a real contender. I have a dozen shots of this butterfly in the gallery always trying to get a different perspective on the subject. But on the day sometime you succeed and others you don't.

The 2 flowers just highlights how difficult flower photography can be. To be honest a good attempt but of little merit.

The 2 Lady birds. Lady birds are a very difficult subject and you have to get so many things right to get an outstanding image. Again a good attempt.

Beautiful Mum. I must admit I missed this. An interest concept but not a Stellar image.

For me Night Scene was head and shoulders above the rest. Although "inom" has been a member for many years it's not a name that springs to mind or has been a heavy contributor to the gallery.

During each week one or two images will stand out for me and the majority of time one of them will be chosen.

That's what I am getting at the Night Scene is beautiful and well done and very well composed and took a lot of effort and planning to get it done right. But the Ladybugs and Mums are both very beautiful and each has a couple of minor technical flaws in them but you know know what like you said Birdsnapper the Mums are a very close second. For me it would be the Mums mainly because that takes some very patient effort to shoot them and you have to do just as much Technical work on them in pre-shooting, shooting, and post production.

I do not know how many photos of plants and animals I though that I had perfect only to get a look at them during post production work and shake my head. So why can't we take one and make it the POTW and do a honorable mention, one that is very good but that needs just a little bit to tweak it to make it POTW material.

And like you robski I have not a lot of time to go through the gallery everyday or every other day. I just feel that we as Photographers and in numerous cases Mentors should be willing to take a hard look at items and photos that are out of our comfort zone. (I also must say that for every four or five hundred photos I shoot only one or two really stand out to me)

The 2 flowers just highlights how difficult flower photography can be. To be honest a good attempt but of little merit.

Your right about this one it is a very good attempt but I feel that their is merit to. And if I had been judging that week it would have at least been an honorable mention.

Let me ask the group this: Is there anything wrong with having the POTW and in another forum or thread doing a honorable mention with any pointers that the panel member that week has to make it a POTW material next time. Something to give the photographer feedback. Like it has been done with the 4 Knights. A different angel, etc.

This is a great site and it has some very talented photographers and some with talent that just need a little nudge to help them. It is not a site like one that I was a member of where the old guard photographers all got all of praise and the younger ones all had their work cut to shreds.

I am asking that if you see one that is really good but just needs a couple of pointers as the panel judge that week then give it a honorable mention and let the photographer know what they can do to improve it. I know I will and yes I will choose this weeks POTW with merit and I will also give a Honorable Mention to somebody if that works for the rest of the panel members.

Dave, explaining why the winner was chosen and why the honourable mention just misses is a good idea -helps not only the photographer, but also gives guidance to others.

It seems to me Dave, that what you are saying is a picture that is NOT necessarily the best picture of the week should win because the picture that IS the best picture of the week has been posted by someone who has won before!

When it is my turn to make a selection, I go to the gallery & review the thumbnails of EVERY image posted in the past week and enlarge all those that catch my attention & make my selection from those. To suggest that your fellow selectors do not review images that have been posted in the previous week equally when making their selection I think does them an injustice.

Of the two images you posted previously, the 4 knights is an OK shot but at the end of the day its a record shot. Compare it with this shot which won in August last year which has action & drama

http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...22/Civil-1.jpg

Again Robski's Red Admiral, I'm sure he won't mind me saying, while not a bad shot, is not in the same class as his Orange Tip , which won in May

http://www.worldphotographyforum.com.../wpf2A2970.jpg

or his Common Blue which won in June last year

http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...2/IMG_4495.jpg

Incidentally I've gone back over the past 18 months and there are only two people who have won more times than Robski so his images are hardly going un-noticed. During that time we have had 36 different winners, with 20 of those having won just once - so its hardly the same people winning every week.

Of the four images you posted lattely, I have to agree with the comments of robski, birdsnapper & tugboat... and Night Scene by inom won POTW a couple of weeks ago (it was my selection :) ) so it hardly got overlooked!!!

As far as honorable mentions go - I, and a number of fellow POTW panelists, already do that, although I have to say, these are usually to images that have made it to my final 3/4 shortlist. That said, to me, the place for giving feedback and pointers to forum members to help them develop their skills, is on their images when they post in their gallery - PROVIDING they have ticked Critique Required because unsolicited feedback is sometimes not well. received

Then shall we try it for a while with every-bodies consent and see how it works.

Clive I am in agreement with you on several points I would just like to see us take the POTW to the next level is all.

Looking back at how I started this discussion off was very wrong and for that I am sorry but the point that I am trying to make is that I see some many photos that have potential that if we as a POTW Panel gave a small honorable mention and a point or two on how to correct what saw that kept that photo from making POTW what harm does that do.

http://www.worldphotographyforum.com.../IMG_2341a.jpg

For example the Mums above this has potential to be a POTW but the photographer could have moved over a little and turned a little and this would be a great flower shot. The biggest distraction to me is the part of the flower on the right sticking out there. Just getting that third flower in would have made it in my mind POTW material.

Of the four images you posted lattely, I have to agree with the comments of robski, birdsnapper & tugboat... and Night Scene by inom won POTW a couple of weeks ago (it was my selection ) so it hardly got overlooked!!!

I know it was chosen and it was your selection and that is why I choose it for these examples. But I did not want to mention that I knew it was a POTW Choice because I wanted to see where everybody would go with the different photos.

Often conditions on the day don't allow you to get the type of shot you want and you end up with the best you get under the circumstances. The response to my images can be quite varied. Some produce no reaction and others just amaze me. These days I just post a few examples of the days work that did not make it to trash can.

I think Dave is working on the premiss that all those who post images in the gallery are hoping to gain the status of POTW. It's never been my motivation. I don't take myself that seriously. It's a hobby I enjoy and like to share with like minded people.

Yes it's nice to get a pat on the back or mentioned in dispatches if your image was enjoyed and produced a good reaction.

Our experience has been ( especially in the critique section which rarely gets used these days ) most feel their work is good or OK and don't take too kindly to suggestions to improve. So unless somebody provides a bad example of their work and says I know it's bad but how can I improve. Only then is help and suggestions forth coming. Otherwise we tend to stay clear of such troubled waters. Yes it is well exposed, in focus and sharp but the subject and composition is nondescript and you would not look at the image once let alone twice. Some people are perfectly happy to churn out images that should never escape from the photo album ;)

all this proves is the best photo ( night scene) was picked for POTW.
and the rest have different opinions,
I would choose the 4knights 2nd because living in Australia I don't see that sort of thing, but I wouldn't be able to give critique on how to make it a better shot.

I forgot about the critique section,but that is the perfect place if you or anyone else would like feedback on your images.

I remember giving a suggestion once on a photo and I was promptly put in my place,so I never give suggestions on how to make something better because it is all personal taste.
some people do get offended by it,I am always grateful for other peoples opinions and that is why I tick the box for welcomed critique in the gallery.

I feel the same as Rob,I don't post to get into POTW gallery,but it is nice to get a mention now and then... I think most people posting here are just social and sharing what they have been doing...
I will still be choosing my POTW the same way, by going through EVERY photo for that week,choosing the ones that jump out at me then choosing the one I like best from that group. for me that is what POTW is all about the best photo for that week.

I have always stated that I am not qualified to judge or critique images,because I have no idea on the technical stuff, I just know what I like and have a hard time saying why I like or don't like something! it just jumps out at me and that is why I choose POTW.

You are very right on the conditions and like you the ones that I do post are often the three, four, five, or six that make the cut out of a couple hundred and usually a lot more that I have shot during the day.

I think Dave is working on the premiss that all those who post images in the gallery are hoping to gain the status of POTW. It's never been my motivation. I don't take myself that seriously. It's a hobby I enjoy and like to share with like minded people.

I am always working on the premise that I want to improve what I am doing and what can be done and maybe I'm wrong in assuming that others are like that also. For me I am working on something that in 5 to 10 years from now I can turn into something that will help pay the bills when it comes to a time that I can no longer perform my trade. Which I know is coming. I guess I am wrong for looking at it that way because I have to say this hobby and the relaxation I get from it has allowed me to alleviate 75 percent of the stress in my life. It is something that I can sit down and loose myself in for a few hours.

When it comes to the opinions of the members of this board I listen when they make suggestions about how I can improve a shot. There are sites out there that are stuffy when it comes to new photographers and how they do stuff.

I have always said it here and will continue to always say it I am open to CC. And that said I will thank everybody for their in put and their comments and sit back and take it all in. If nobody objects I will tell people why I chose their photo as the POTW and I will give a small pointer or two to those that came in a close second on my short list. I am sorry if I ruffled any feathers that was not my intention.

I think that's great Dave, just bear I'm mind that, as robski says, not everyone welcomes unsolicited feedback so I would restrict your improvement pointers to images where the author indicated critique welcome when posting in their gallery

Thank you Clive I will do that.