good point, I never thought about doing them outdoors. I could still probably do with a set-up for indoor use though, as my daughter is only 2 years old and not very steady on her feet 100% due to a mild disability. so reading yelvertofts post i think that could well be the best route thinking about it. when I saw those reflector discs I did think maybe I should try out my car sun shade for front windscreen, but got a funny look from the wife haha. I shall give it a go I think and see how they turn out. Also, I had read in one of my digital photographer magazines to not use on camera flash if it can be helped,so thanks for confirming that too. thanks for all the tips

now to just keep an eye out for some sort of backdrop frame