Growing Paranoia

[yelvertoft]

I'm glad this problem is at last getting some sympathetic media attention.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7351252.stm

[andy153]

Same story, but slightly different Duncan, was featured a few months ago on this LINK :
http://www.worldphotographyforum.com...ead.php?t=2559

This thread advice is similar -
Golden Rules:
1) Never loose your temper
2) Always ask someone before hand and stress non commercial use - Planning ahead I've never had a problem.

[gordon g]

I agree with Andy's golden rules, but would add, always stop and put your camera away straight away. Then ask, politely, what the problem was. It may be, for instance, that you are causing an obstruction, in which case you can be moved on.
Sometimes just a bit of polite conversation can get you back shooting again. If not, at least you havent aggravated the situation and caused yourself more problems.

[Birdsnapper]

Surely the whole point is that we shouldn't have to be polite to go about our lawful business.

[andy153]

Hi Mike - with my ex-coppers hat on - I remember I was not paid to argue with people but to keep the Queens Peace - you get heated - as far as I'm concerned you become disorderly - your nicked!

Sure you have a right to photograph in public and the copper may be wrong to start with - but you step over a very arbitrary line and his or her "ton of bricks" will descend. You don't know - but a short while ago they may have been telling some poor soul that there child is dead or been pulling the bits from an horrendous accident - so their fuse may be very short.

Politeness always achieves much more and has got me and my camera into places where few get. An awful lot of these people spend a lot of time learning their patch in a way the casual visitor can never hope to and many will show you places to photograph from that give that unusual or little known viewpoint.

[Birdsnapper]

Hi Andy, agree that politeness when dealing with individual officers (calling a copper 'sir' and standing as if front of headmaster worked very well when I was a mod back in the 60s). However, my point is that the bobby on the beat needs more guidence so that he doesn't confront a photographer in such a way that the photographer needs to be particularly polite when confronted on peaceful business.

A copper confronting a member of the public in a way such that the member of the public becomes heated and is then regarded as disorderly is surely not acceptable behaviour on behalf of the copper.

[Snowyowl]

I listened to an interview by the photographer mentioned at the beginning of yelvertoft's link and was astonished that the police could get away with such actions.
The police (like politicians) work for us. If I am doing something that is not illegal and anyone tries to stop me, I expect the police to protect my rights not impede me. I get very angry over the loss of civil rights that has taken place under th guise of anti-terrorism precautions.

[robski]

The location known as 'between a rock and a hard place' is the chosen environment of an active police officer. The pleasant and unpleasant duties are part of the job spec. The stock phases "that an officer had to handle a difficult situation" don't wash with me. That is what they are paid to do.

There are countless other phases used as responses no doubt part the officers training.

It beholds the officer to understand the operating environment of that place, for he is sworn to uphold the law, not to enforce his personal opinions on right or wrong.

What I believe gets up peoples nose is when an officer has to take control and assert his authority in circumstances where it is totally uncalled for. When a person calmly expresses a view which is legal but different from the officers opinion it suddenly becomes they are disorderly. Because in the officers opinion the person is disorderly they are at liberty to abuse the persons civil rights with all manor of powers available to them.

Like it or not we live in a culture of a police state and a stick is used to keeps us firmly under control. One does question the logic of some the new laws being introduced. They seem to be more about money, power and control than protecting the bulk of citizens. I only hope that society rebells against this constant erosion of civil liberties otherwise we will end up as programmed machines in the system. No free will, no free spirit, just existing waiting to die. If some people had their way micro chips would be inserted at birth and then charge us for every breath of air. So many people have lost site of the fact that Planet Earth is a dangerous place so get used to it. You cannot protect or make laws for every possible event so why try.

I am of the opinion that the police bring many of the problems upon themselves by their actions.

Radical thoughts I know but then I'm a radical person. (no law against it as far as I know )

[Derekb]

I'm sorry, but politeness is not something you should have to even think about. Maybe I'm a dying breed, but we were taught to respect our elders, the authorities and act accordingly. Army training further instilled 'values' in me.

If that is dismissed as being old fashioned, then so be it. I've been kicked in the head and hospitalised for asking someone not to swear in front of my wife. Would I do so again? of course.

In the above situation I would politely inform the officer I know my rights (as I have been in this position before) and could he check with his bosses. If he decided no and thought I was being obstructive then I would back off politely, but ask the officer for his details and inform him I would be taking it up with his seniors. This would be done with no malice whatsoever and I would walk away.

[robski]

Originally Posted by Derekb

I'm sorry, but politeness is not something you should have to even think about. Maybe I'm a dying breed, but we were taught to respect our elders, the authorities and act accordingly. Army training further instilled 'values' in me.

This sort of programing worked well when we were mainly tribal communities. Everybody know who was who and worked for a common goal. Today we have faceless seats of power dictating what we can and cannot do. How much say do you really have in structuring the laws as an "Elder" ?.

Originally Posted by Derekb

If that is dismissed as being old fashioned, then so be it. I've been kicked in the head and hospitalised for asking someone not to swear in front of my wife.

This goes to prove that Planet Earth is a dangerous place and not everybody can be moulded into the model citizen.
In this case they were the "Authority" and you were contesting it. Being Streetwise and using the osmosis effect to blend in usually keeps most people out of trouble.