Canon printer and the colour blue.

[Stuart R]

Hi

My Canon printer (i455) is usually very good at printing green, red, yellow areas of images printed but fails every time with blue. Now I know it is not a very high quality printer but is this failure to print "blue" something characteristic to Canon printers. The colour of the image enclosed is bright intense "gentian" blue but comes out wishy-washy pinky/blue on printing. Comments please, and what is the best printer to reproduce "blue"

Cheers

Stuart R

[miketoll]

What colours is it on the screen? It might be the fact that this colour of flower contains wavelengths the eye can't see but the camera sensor can so when the image is reproduced it looks wrong. Thats why film shots of bluebells never look right. Just a thought.

[Stuart R]

Originally Posted by miketoll

What colours is it on the screen? It might be the fact that this colour of flower contains wavelengths the eye can't see but the camera sensor can so when the image is reproduced it looks wrong. Thats why film shots of bluebells never look right. Just a thought.

Hi

No, colour on screen is as the jpeg. Have also just submitted to "Plant" gallery an image of a Princess flower which again is an intense blue. Looks great on my screen ( and hopefully yours!) but prints out as wishy washy pinky/blue on printing. But , look at the great colour of the enclosed - printed out exactly as on screen

Has me confused

Cheers

Stuart

Sorry, can't add to reply - will add to gallery (CF jpeg)

[robski]

I assume this printer came with software to print from and included a printer profile for this printer. Also are you using Canon Ink ?

I have much the same problem with Africian Violets. What I did find help was to use flash as I could set the camera to a known light source and included part of a gray card to check colour balance and exposure.

Let me start off by stating I have very little pratical knowledge of printing photos and no knowledge of this printer. My day job is on the technical side of pre-press systems in the print (press) industry. For my sins I have to get my head around the technical issues of colour management.

So before you rush out to buy a new printer it maybe worth trying to understand some of the problems.

The human eye can see a certain range of colours. The camera can record another range of colours. The phoshors on the CRT can display yet another range of colours and the CMYK pigments of the printer also has it's own range of colours.

Where these ranges overlap, colours are generally faithfully reproduced. It is the areas outside of this boundry that cause the problems. Colour managment is about preventing these colours (clipping) or scaling (re-mapping) colours to fit into the boundary.

I have taken your recent posting and veiwed in PS to show gamut warning ( these are the colour that won't print correctly in CMYK). The attached shows grey where the colour is out of range.


Also attached are diagrams showing the Adobe rgb and srgb colours spaces which your camera or image editing software maybe applying.
The larger area within the loop is the range of colours the human vision system can see. The area in the triangle is the range of colours within that colour space.

The srgb is intended for CRT monitor display of images and Adobergb is intended for Printing with CMYK inks. ( C = Cyan, M = Magenta, Y = Yellow & K = Black )

You can see that there is not a hugh range of blues in either colour space.
The Adobergb has a much wider range of greens and a slightly better range of blues.

As an aside some of the more expensive printers use 6 inks to give a wider range of colours. You would need to ask an expert if this helps with the Blues.

It would be interesting to see if you get the same problem when printed by a photo lab.

[Christine]

Stuart,I also have no technical know of printers,but before purchasing our latest printer ,an HP Photosmart 8450,I read every review I could find,and in several it did suggest just gradually brightening up the colours in the printer itself,and then saving the selections you have made.So any colours which may perhaps not appear to be printed as one sees on screen,you can perhpas make in- printer adjustments to suit.Just an idea.I don't know if it has made any great difference,but they all seem to look okay,very bright and clear,and colours when printed, actually look much better when printed with this printer than they do on screen.

[yelvertoft]

Originally Posted by robski

The human eye can see a certain range of colours. The camera can record another range of colours. The phoshors on the CRT can display yet another range of colours and the CMYK pigments of the printer also has it's own range of colours.

Where these ranges overlap, colours are generally faithfully reproduced. It is the areas outside of this boundry that cause the problems. Colour managment is about preventing these colours (clipping) or scaling (re-mapping) colours to fit into the boundary.

I have taken your recent posting and veiwed in PS to show gamut warning ( these are the colour that won't print correctly in CMYK). The attached shows grey where the colour is out of range.


Also attached are diagrams showing the Adobe rgb and srgb colours spaces which your camera or image editing software maybe applying.
The larger area within the loop is the range of colours the human vision system can see. The area in the triangle is the range of colours within that colour space.

The srgb is intended for CRT monitor display of images and Adobergb is intended for Printing with CMYK inks. ( C = Cyan, M = Magenta, Y = Yellow & K = Black )

You can see that there is not a hugh range of blues in either colour space.
The Adobergb has a much wider range of greens and a slightly better range of blues.

Rob,

Thank you very much for this explanation, it's the clearest guide I've ever read on this topic. I've never been able to get my head around this subject before but your explanation has made it all so easy to understand, even if it's just as hard to get right in the real world.

Thanks,

Duncan

[Stuart R]

Rob - Thanks for your help and explanations

Originally Posted by robski

I assume this printer came with software to print from and included a printer profile for this printer. Also are you using Canon Ink ?

(Yes, the Canon came with software for printing and I always set it up for highest quality print and Photo Pro paper - I use Canon Ink at all times. The colour cartridge is a single multi colour affair - Number 24)

I have much the same problem with Africian Violets. What I did find help was to use flash as I could set the camera to a known light source and included part of a gray card to check colour balance and exposure.

Let me start off by stating I have very little pratical knowledge of printing photos and no knowledge of this printer. My day job is on the technical side of pre-press systems in the print (press) industry. For my sins I have to get my head around the technical issues of colour management.

So before you rush out to buy a new printer it maybe worth trying to understand some of the problems.

(Not at the moment thinking about changing printers but wonder if a canon multi tank printer would be both cheaper in use and produce better "blues")

The human eye can see a certain range of colours. The camera can record another range of colours. The phoshors on the CRT can display yet another range of colours and the CMYK pigments of the printer also has it's own range of colours.

Where these ranges overlap, colours are generally faithfully reproduced. It is the areas outside of this boundry that cause the problems. Colour managment is about preventing these colours (clipping) or scaling (re-mapping) colours to fit into the boundary.

I have taken your recent posting and veiwed in PS to show gamut warning ( these are the colour that won't print correctly in CMYK). The attached shows grey where the colour is out of range.


Also attached are diagrams showing the Adobe rgb and srgb colours spaces which your camera or image editing software maybe applying.
The larger area within the loop is the range of colours the human vision system can see. The area in the triangle is the range of colours within that colour space.

The srgb is intended for CRT monitor display of images and Adobergb is intended for Printing with CMYK inks. ( C = Cyan, M = Magenta, Y = Yellow & K = Black )

You can see that there is not a hugh range of blues in either colour space.
The Adobergb has a much wider range of greens and a slightly better range of blues.

(So does this mean in layman terms that all CMYK printers are always going to have difficulty in printing correct vivid blues?)

As an aside some of the more expensive printers use 6 inks to give a wider range of colours. You would need to ask an expert if this helps with the Blues.
It would be interesting to see if you get the same problem when printed by a photo lab.

(Never sent a photo for lab processing but might give it a whirl - any recommendations?)

Cheers

Stuart

[robski]

Hi Stuart

As I have said I get very few printed. My better shots get used as desktops or folk on Birdforum or here get inflicted with them.

The only batch of bird shots I had done was by the local Jessops. I was keen to see the colour was acurate. Along one edge of the images I added some calibration boxes. Solid White, 25% Grey, 50% Grey, 75% Grey, Solid Black, 100% Red, 50% Red, 100% Green, 50% Green, 100% Blue, 50% Blue, Plus some Colours from the Gretag Colour test chart.

The object of the boxes was two fold. Firstly was to prevent the Labs Auto Calibration software playing with the colour balance and secondly I could measure the results on a spectrocam at work.

I don't know if I was lucky as you hear so many bad reports but I was very pleased with the results. The Grey boxes were very slightly warm in colour which the spectrocam confirmed as being about 0.5% too red.

I am sure the regular Lab users on here can recommend good on-line labs.

As an aside this sort of issue opens the debate ( I think your find threads on here or Birdforum ) on the merits of owning a home printer. From my POV the only possible merit is the instant gratification factor. Again from my POV the hassle and expense of keeping a home printer running for the odd printout it is not worth it. If I am really that interested I run a printout from the Colour LaserJet at work.

[Nogbad]

Hi I have the Canon IP4000 and have had trouble printing my images for Inclusion at my Photographic club.

The colours were ok but quite often had a colour cast usually a greenish one, most notable in B&W.

I have resorted to using a local colour lab, I submit the images on a disc, the more you have printed the less it costs. It works our cheaper than home printing!

Nogbad

[miketoll]

Originally Posted by robski

Hi Stuart

As an aside this sort of issue opens the debate ( I think your find threads on here or Birdforum ) on the merits of owning a home printer. From my POV the only possible merit is the instant gratification factor. Again from my POV the hassle and expense of keeping a home printer running for the odd printout it is not worth it. If I am really that interested I run a printout from the Colour LaserJet at work.

Its a round trip of 20 miles to my nearest commercial printer (Boots) and I need a home printer anyway. The time of day when I like to print is in the evening anyway so they are closed. I like to print what I like when I like (A4 mostly) so no contest for me.