suggestions for rule changes March onwards

[Snowyowl]

I don't like the idea of splitting the entries by ability or experience but beyond that I don't much care. I would like to see something that would encourage people to vote and to look at all of the entries but I really don't know how you can do this. Perhaps a rule that we have to have voted in 2 or 3 comps before being able to enter one? The trouble is that could get really complicated and difficult to keep track of. Probably best to leave things alone.
I would, however, like to think that Admin at least considers suggestions from the members and I suspect that they do.

[robski]

Originally Posted by Snowyowl

I would, however, like to think that Admin at least considers suggestions from the members and I suspect that they do.

One would certainly hope so Dan. Photography is about the creative spirit but we see the same old rigid formats imposed on the forum. Whatever happened to a bit of flare ? Wheres the dynamics? Why can't we create new models, new experiences instead of the same old drudge ?

[Joe]

I would guess some of that flare, dynamics and creative spirit should be lead by the photographs entered, in order to avoid the drudge.
The images should lead the way.
I don't believe any ability or number of images rule should apply when entering these fun competitions. A prime example....Should my wife's (wisher) picture in last months comp be thought any lesser because she hasn't downloaded as many as me? I certainly thought her entry way better than mine.
Lets not get all bogged down in the politics, but instead enter the comps with images that are a bit different, and perhaps less obvious?

[Nigel G]

Personally I am in favour of keeping the entry requirements as liberal as possible. It is the nature of all forums that members come and go. Having scanned the winners to date the number of gallery postings by each winner varies from 2 to 110 - but I feel it would have been a shame if those great little terriers in "A Day at the Races" had been disallowed because it was the first of only 2.

If there were to be any changes to the rules I would like to see them trying to achieve 2 things:

- firstly to get more people to enter because I think it challenges you to think about and extend your photography.

- and secondly to get more people to vote. Everyone on here has an interest in photography and pictures and (IMO) those are the only qualifications you need to express a preference based on whatever criteria you deem important.

So changes I would suggest are:
- make it impossible to see the voting results until after you have voted (as is the case on BF).
- I am inclined to go along with the suggestion that postings should be anonymous until after you have voted.
- Make it impossible to vote for yourself.

[robski]

Just to review the debate on suggestions for change to date.

In a nutshell Chris (Daedal) would like to see some device which prevents Pros from dropping their prize winning shot into the competition purely to put another notch on their belt and then never to be seen again.

Clive (Gidders) supports Sassan on allowing more entries per member. He also feels there is some merit in reviewing. He made the point about entries being anonymous to prevent friends voting for each other.

Don Hoey I feel would like to see some sort of change but maybe that was just the beer talking.

Sue (Greypoint) has a more radical idea to start a picture of the week/month with nominations from the gallery.

Nigel G welcomes changes to improve competition involvement. He would like to see the following changes. Make it impossible to see the voting results until after you have voted (as is the case on BF). I am inclined to go along with the suggestion that postings should be anonymous until after you have voted. Make it impossible to vote for oneself.

At some point a red herring was introduced about introducing ability levels. I don’t recall anybody requesting that.

Stephen Fox’s contribution was to wave the rule book at us.

It would seem that only Joe and Dan (Snowyowl) are completely happy with the status quo and at least 7 members have voiced that they would like to see some adjustment to the rules.

Joe Quote “I don't believe any ability or number of images rule should apply when entering these fun competitions.”

Joe does this mean you are in favour of multiply entries per member?

To be honest since the forum started I have grown tired of the pointless requests and debate on the topic of competitions because its rules appear to be firmly set in stone.

Unless somebody is prepared to tell me otherwise.

[Joe]

To clarify, no I meant number of images submitted by a member in general, in view of a ability or number of images a member has on this forum 'tier' system mentioned, not that more than one picture as an option to be entered in each comp.
er,....i still haven't put that quite clearly, but i hope my view is clearer.

[Don Hoey]

Originally Posted by robski

Just to review the debate on suggestions for change to date.

Don Hoey I feel would like to see some sort of change but maybe that was just the beer talking.

RULE : In the event of an overwhelming number of entries Moderators and Admin will decide on a final short list, in this event any Moderators or Admin who entered the competition shall remove their own entry.

Question : What is an overwhelming number of entries given that membership currently stands at ..... Members: 2,078 rising.

In the last comp Christine, as a mod, had her entry withdrawn without the mods needing to vote on overwhelming entries as the field was 31. I noticed it was missing as it was due my vote. With this image removed we then had a field of 30 pics. I was not a ' Happy Bunnie ' as Christine always shows boundless enthusiasm for the comps and her encouragement to get members to enter is well known. For example Christines post 2 weeks in with only 3 entries at the time was the only reason I went to Norwich to get an entry for the Architecture comp. So in this case Christine, as a mod, having to remove her entry just to get to 30 really annoyed me. Now with thoughts of more than a single entry that would be as good debaring the mods from entering.

RANT OVER ....

I would add a proposal, that as there are a number of members who do not normally enter the comp, as its not their thing, that we have a small panel drawn from those members to be called on in the case of ' overwhelming entries ', so freeing mods to enter if they desire. As the membership increases, and now that Foxy is posting a huge list of suggestions with the comp notice the ' overwhelming entries ' is most likely on the horizon anyway.

On Nigels suggested changes :
I have never been able to see the votes cast before I've voted. I may be the odd one out, and if so, I agree. Make it impossible to vote for yourself I also agree.

While agreeing that entries being anonymous would be ideal, I do not know how the system could handle that, as the pic would need to be attributable to the photographer at the end of the comp. A rule would then need to be added preventing someone with lots of positive gallery comments then deciding to add it to the comp. as anonymity would be lost.

A picture of the week is certainly an interesting idea. A thought though, I went walkabout ( workshop ) for 4 days to be faced with nearly 300 new pics on my return, and I have still not caught up. So if it was of the month I suggest that unless we had a specific gallery catagory then it could be very hard to make a nomination. On the up side some way of doing a pic of the week should encourage comp entries as any nervousness to enter should be diminished, pic of the week being from ALL gallery submissions on that week. One would also hope it would draw more into voting in the main comp too. Additional 52 winners per year.

Don

Thanks to Robert for summary and to everyone else for throwing ideas into the ring

Am not that bothered about anonymity; if a pic is interesting, so is the gallery etc of who took it (assuming it exists). Especially in the quite frequent case that there are 3 or 4 of such merit that it is difficult to choose. In that case I personally would veer to a younger and/or more adventurous entrant. But I can see that more experienced people may see subtelties that I don't.

Other featured pics or galleries seem a good additional idea, especially when postings are coming as thick and fast as at present and one can have missed 50 or 60 when out of action even for a couple of days

[Snowyowl]

Before this goes any further, it would be nice to hear from Admin as to whether they are prepared to seriously look at the suggestions and possibly act on them.
Without knowing that, then this is just an exercise in futility.

[robird]

I’m sorry, Chris, but I have to totally disagree with you. Not because I am one of those cases you are referring to, but because I believe it may encourage more useless commentary like: Lovely picture - or - Nice Picture – or – Cool – or - Great stuff. See, I would have already gained 4 points. Wouldn’t even have to look at the picture, just drop off my comments as new images get posted. Not sure why they do it, probably to collect points to be called ‘senior’ or something. But I think you know what I’m talking about.
At the same time I also believe that ‘A truly great picture’ or ‘Absolutely brilliant’ may be all that one can/need say about some images, because there is just nothing more to say about it.

I don’t get as much time as I would like to browse in the forums and the galleries, so my commenting will be quite scarce. So will my album submissions. I’ll be lucky to get an entry in every month, but I will try. Since I’ve only got a ‘real’ camera for the last 2 years, I don’t have a picture stock to suit every competition.
Maybe an age limit of the submitted picture would be good. That activates people’s creativity, rather than make them dig through their old pictures.

I would completely agree with the suggestion that the pictures should be posted anonymously until voting is over. That would cut out personal preferences and other politics and would have people vote for the pictures. Unless I got it all wrong, it is the picture that counts, is it not?
The votes are not visible until one voted, anyway, and that’s the way it should be.

BTW, is it not impossible to vote for oneself as things are?

Well, our moderator doesn’t seem to feel too enthusiastic about changes. Just as much as this thread was answered with little enthusiasm, so was what I posted in last months voting thread

1,947 Members and 30 voters - that's a bit slack, isn't it?
Just cast my vote, anyway. We now have 1,947 Members and 31 voters

Mr. Fox only had the following to say:

We have a core of approx 100 regular visitors and the others tend to visit as and when. All members welcome and entitled to vote.

rather than joining in with a cheerful: “Come on everybody, get voting!”

My following post, suggesting some small change on the site to encourage more voters didn’t receive any reaction.

May I suggest adding a link to the ‘What's Going On?’ section on the index page of the forum as well as to the top of the index page of the gallery leading directly to the present monthly voting page.

In fairness, Mr. Fox did act on:

I also believe that the voting page needs a clearly visible link to the gallery page that holds the entries and vice versa.

Although I don’t think it was purely in response to my suggestion


Summery of changes I would like to see:
Anonymous competition entries
Entries should not be older than 12 months
More links pointing to the voting page
More communication and enthusiasm by our moderator
More of:

Welcome to WPF, possibly the most friendliest photography forum on the web. I am sure it will brighten your day.

Enjoy!