alternatives to CS3

[Gidders]

Originally Posted by Chris

... you can shoot with your normal/preferred settings of sharpness, saturation, contrast and only need to touch them during RAW conversion if it is a different shot from the usual.

I keep seeing quotes like this and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure that, if you shoot in RAW, then the camera settings for sharpness, saturation, contrast etc have NO impact on the RAW file - thats the point of RAW - the camera makes no decisions for you - they only effect if you are shooting in JPG

I'll do some tests somethime when I get a minute, but I'm fairly sure this is the case - happy to be proved wrong

Originally Posted by Gidders

I keep seeing quotes like this and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure that, if you shoot in RAW, then the camera settings for sharpness, saturation, contrast etc have NO impact on the RAW file:

As you say, RAW is designed to keep everything possible and does.

What it is is that the settings in the camera pre-set the variables for that file for a RAW converter program. From 350D in DPP, there is a set of sliders equivalent to those in camera 'parameters'. From 80D there are 4 'non-picture controls' which, if you do revisit, show camera settings as 'unchanged' for you to change if you wish - or you can just skip that step.

On your CR2, the sharpness slider shows up as 1 on a 10 point scale whereas contrast, colour tone and saturation come through as 5.

My instinct is that the manufacturer's own software has the closest analogue to the camera's built-in computer, so to sharpen Victoria, I set scale to say 7 in DPP rather than mess with it in editing software. In DPP, setting the sharpness scale higher than 7 usually leads to halos and noise, same as careless use of unsharp mask - maybe that is all it is. In NX the sharpen in the camera controls is far superior to using USM later, but that is available for .nef origin files only.

[greenbunion]

Just to add a voice of caution to this headlong stampede towards technology!
Too often we use software to try and rescue a crap shot. I think it worth reminding ourselves that the secret to good photography is great composition and correct exposure - not "my computer's more powerful than yours".

[Roy C]

Originally Posted by Chris

In DPP, setting the sharpness scale higher than 7 usually leads to halos and noise, same as careless use of unsharp mask

The sharpness function in DPP is very basic to say the least, I doubt if many people would use DPP for sharpening - same for noise reduction. These are far better done in a better image editor.
I leave it set on 0 and do all my sharpening in CS2, even then straight USM sharpening is fairly crude unless you use masks as it will sharpen globally which is rarely whats needed. The 'smart sharpen' function gives you a bit more control as you can reduce the sharpening effect in the shadows and/or highlights.
As for halos through sharpening, this should never happen because it means is that you have oversharpened. One thing you should always do when sharpening is to view the image at 100% and if you see halos then reduce the amount until they disappear.

Having said that, I do like DPP for converting my RAWS but all I usually do is the adjust Exposure and white balance before transfer to CS2.

[andy153]

I've been thinking about what Roy says above and been back over my posts - Looking back I rarely sharpen anything - so how many of us do automatically sharpen images?

[greenbunion]

Are you shooting RAw or jpeg?

[Roy C]

Originally Posted by andy153

I've been thinking about what Roy says above and been back over my posts - Looking back I rarely sharpen anything - so how many of us do automatically sharpen images?

I think if you shoot in RAW then most images could do with a bit of sharpening but if you shoot in jpeg then sharpening has has already been applied (unless you have turned it off) so there would be less need to sharpen any more.

[andy153]

I shoot RAW & JPEG but tend to use the JPEG versions for most online work. I only use the RAW for stuff I want to print and that goes from Aperture straight into CS3, but again looking back, I notice I rarely sharpen.

Again, I think we begin to misunderstand - the guts of the camera is an array of posh light meters (see eg http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/sensors.htm ) wired to a microcomputer.

The manufacturer does the wiring and programming so as to suit most purposes, fairly loosely in 'unprogrammed' modes, much more elaborately in programmed ones (for point-and-shooters), but nevertheless programmed with as much control left to us as we care to take up.

So there is no such thing as 'no sharpening', at very least there is the minimum level the manufacturer has deemed sensible to give us as a starting point, set for a softish image in case that is what we want. Setting slightly higher levels of 'sharpening during conversion' either in the camera or conversion software is needed to give crispness if not sharpness. Canon & Nikon (group) use different type of sensors, so degrees of latitude are different. Where are you Robski, you are the guy that really understands?

I doubt if any of us lot do, but you can also plug the camera straight into a printer and in that case the manual gives instructions for processing roughly equivalent to the RAW stage of DPP + red-eye removal and other common tweaks. Just gives some idea of the computer circuitry within the camera.

[Roy C]

Originally Posted by Chris

Setting slightly higher levels of 'sharpening during conversion' either in the camera or conversion software is needed to give crispness if not sharpness.

Why do you need to sharpen at all during conversion - you can do this after the file has been converted