Is it ethical ? How far can one go?

[wolfie]

Chilling an insect in the fridge is something I have done in the past and probably something I will do in the future. these insects have always flown away after a couple of minutes and seem no worse for their experience.

Would suggest you have a read here

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-14949844.html

Harry

[Nogbad]

Whilst I appreciate in any discussions there are arguments for and against and would never berate anyone for any practise they use, there is one point most people seem to be missing.

When peiople chill these insects they have quite often been netted/captured and taken out of their natural habitat. To release the insect after you have phtotographed it is almost as bad as consigning the insect to certain death.

If you release an insect somewhere which is not its natural habitat it will stand out like a sore thumb and is bound to be picked of.

This is where I feel we have a responsibilty both to the insects and our ecology.

How many photographers take insects home photograph them, then take them back to where they were taken from? Not many I suspect.

We have a varied and unique fauna which is disapearing all the time with our activities, pollution, impact on the ecology of our natural resources, etc.

As a photographer and conservationist my main responsibilty will always be to protect the fauna and flora.

The article on chilling, compelling as it may be fails to point out there are many insects which do not respond well to chilling, and will have an adverse effect on the insect.

It is all well and good for this process to happen naturally in the wild, i.e low tempratures, make insects torpid but they have coping and survival mechanisms in place to protect them under these circumstances.

When we interfere in these matters we are exposing them to unecessary stresses. I would much prefer to lose sleep and go out at first light looking for the insects in their natural environment than capture, chill then release the insect in a foreign environment.

Interesting discussion.

Nogbad

[walwyn]

The counter argument made by collectors is that it is very unlikely that you will have caught a rare insect. However, on the off chance that you have, if the act of you collecting it is such that the species becomes endangered in that location then the species was doomed anyway.

[Zeb]

Originally Posted by Nogbad

Chilling an insect puts it under stress. The animal will beat its wings rapidly in order to maintain body temparature and flight muscles. Chilling them weakens them and leaves them vulnerable to attack.

Erm... I hate to say this but insects aren't warm-bodied.

In fact if you climb high enough into the atmosphere when it's cold enough you'll be able to find hundreds (maybe thousands) of frozen winged insects being carried by the wind. They get frozen by flying that high or being pulled upwards by updrafts.

Because their molecular structure is very different to us many can be frozen without a problem. Humans can't be frozen because we're mostly water and when you freeze water it expands and destroys cell walls.

As with humans (and many other species whether it's animal, vegetable or mineral) when the temperature drops the bodily functions slow down. Just that we can't [yet!] be frozen and thawed without serious damage.

Oh and I believe you shouldn't disturb the dust on the wings of moths and butterflies too much because it helps them fly - not sure about this bit tho.

(I must get my head out of Discovery Channel)

[Nogbad]

Please dont insult my intelligence!

I have been studying and conserving insect since a small lad and am very aware that insects are cold bloodied!!

I dont suppose you have ever noticed but even in the warmest of summers butterfly's, dragonflies moths etc, all are pretty much helpless until the sun has warmed them enough that their circulation is sufficient for them to start to fly.

If you have ever bred any of the many moths such as the larger hawk Moths, Noctuids, etc you will have seen they will vibrate their wings for a good 5-10 minutes before being able to fly. This is to ensure their circulation and body temprature is sufficient to maintain their flight and to prevent injury. very similar to us warming up before excercise.

yes many insects do get taken inro the atmosphere but many also die as they cannot survive the frezing experience. There are many insects that use the wind as a strategy to colonise other areas spiders use their silk to do this as well as other insects, however it is always a lottery as to whether they are taken high enough to survive.

Dont beleive everything you see or hear on discovery channel. How about getting out and discovering things for yourself?

Slightly miffed, Nogbad

[Zeb]

Quite an aggressive attitude you have, don't you think?

Slightly [not] miffed but actually quite happy.

Why would I want to insult your intelligence?

A simple reply rather than that would suffice, don't you think?

[Nogbad]

No Not agressive, just didnt appreciate the condescending tone.

Nogbad

[Zeb]

Sincere apologies if it came across as condescending, believe me, that is definitely not how I intended it to seem.

[Nogbad]

Apology accepted. Please accept mine. It is always difficult when replying to threads as it's not always possible to appreciate the tone being conveyed. Something quite innocuous can be read in an enterly different manner.

Nogbad

[Zeb]

I know how it goes, I usually try and be careful with what I type but I've been off work ill for the second week now and I've not been thinking straight all the time