What use is EXIF?

[yelvertoft]

We appear to be discussing two different aspects of photography here, firstly the whole creative process, including post-processing as suggested by walwyn's Ansel Adams example, and secondly, the usefulness of basic capture information that can be used as a learning tool by the amateur and beginner.

Certainly I used to keep records in a notebook of settings used for a specific reel of film if I was trying to learn a particular technique or effect. It was the only way I could really learn about how much impact the settings had on the final image when I got the film back from the lab, I had to be very careful that the prints stayed in order until I'd annotated the settings on the back of the prints. This wasn't the norm for me, I used it to help my learning process. If I change the aperture by one stop, really, how much impact does that have on the DoF for that particualr focal length? Likewise, how slow do I need to set the shutter to freeze the motion of a particular subject?

This is the great benefit of EXIF, all the information I need is readily to hand. Certainly, as Mrs Y has taken up the camera again after a break of a few years, it has helped her learn about the effect of the basic settings used.

So, you can dial in the same camera settings, take two identical captures, post process (film or digital) to your heart's content, and produce two very different pictures with identical EXIF (or notes in film photographers notebook). In this case, the settings may not be of much value - though Clive's excellent reply shows that regardless of post processing, it is of some value.

It's an excellent resource for learning the craft, I'd hate to be without it.

Regards,

Duncan

[robski]

Perhaps we should have a poll on who takes any notice of EXIF data. I must admit that I've never keep any records of shots. The only time I have look at other peoples EXIF data is when considering a new lens purchase.

Unfortunately Neat Image strips out the EXIT data as part of it's file size reduction process.

[Tannin]

Originally Posted by robski

Unfortunately Neat Image strips out the EXIT data as part of it's file size reduction process.

Huh? What version of Neat Image are you using? Must be right out of the Stone Age., Robski, as Neat Image has preserved EXIF info intact for ages - long as I can remember, in fact.

Back to the original topic: agreeing with pretty much everyone in this thread (except Walwyn), shooting info is not just of practical use from time to time, but of genuine interest a lot of the time too.

[Snowyowl]

My free version of Neat Image strips EXIF data.

[walwyn]

It was one of the reason's I paid for a copy of NeatImage, the other being the tiff output. Unfortunately some other piece of software I use also strips the EXIF when saving to tiff, which is normally the first thing I do. Oh well.

Back on topic. I can see how the EXIF data might be useful in controlled situations. Back in the early days I sort of took notes too, because that is what you were supposed to do. But I never found it that useful when you were out in the 'wild' what was best last week in the Mendips isn't necessarily true this week on the Norfolk Broads. That's why you'd bracket the exposures, back home you may find that the 'over exposed' shot was better than the others, perhaps it was the 'under exposed' one, or the 'correct' one, but damned if a day or two later I could ever remember what the exact circumstance might have been that made one better than the others. You can see the same thing happening in Clive's Appleby photos, some are at 1/800 some at 1/500, whether its done manually or automatically by the camera, there is a degree of bracketing occurring on shutter speed. Which I think is the most important thing of note, but nothing in the EXIF for an individual photo tells you that.


I have photographic books and magazines on my selves, underneath each photo is stuff like 1/100 f16, and I've always felt so what? What if it had been taken at 1/200 f16, perhaps that would have made a better image, or perhaps if he was better at panning he'd have been able to use 1/250 instead of 1/500.

A lot has been made in the thread about novices being able to work out how to do things by examining someone's EXIF data. Which presupposes that the novice knows how to read the EXIF and what it is telling them. I'm pretty sure that if one of my non-photographic savvy coleagues asked me how do you get blurry flowing water and I replied 'Look at the EXIF in this photo.' I'd get a pretty sharp response.

[Tannin]

Quite so, Walwyn. I think the info for novices theme in this thread is overdone - though there is some point to it. For me at least, it's more about interesting (but admittedly non-vital) info for people with some experience. I'm not sure what proportion of shots I want to see the EXIF info for, it's maybe one time in three that I ask myself the what camera, what exposure settings, what lens questions.

Actually, now that I think about it, the pictures I most often want to see the shooting data for are the bad ones! As Tolstoy observed (well, about families rather than photographs, but same thing) in a way good pictures are all alike - but bad pictures all have their own particular problems.

Edit: from EXIF data to Tolstoy in a single post. Dear or dear - I think I should get out more.

Edit #2: I forgot to mention Neat Image. And I forgot that the demo version doesn't save EXIF - well, it doesn't save TIFFS either, both of which are fair enough given that it costs you nothing. Can't give away the crown jewels.

[jamieZ740]

where can i get a demo for this neat image malarky. evenry one seems to go on about it? is it better than photoshop or is it the poor mans Ps?

[walwyn]

http://www.neatimage.com/

It just does digital noise reduction and sharpening. But it does it very, very, well.

My procedure is:

1) read data from camera.
2) delete stuff I don't want to keep.
3) repeat 2
4) Load image into editing software.
5) Save a copy as tiff.
6) Process tiff in neatimage and save result under different name.
7) Back in editing software crop, alter levels, contrast, saturation.
8) Save result
9) Resize for web and save again as jpg.

[jamieZ740]

cheers matey

[Snowyowl]

I don't look at the EXIF for other people's shots very often but lately I have been looking a bit more. I've been trying to get good shots of hummingbirds and having poor success. The ruby colour of the males is coming out black and the overall colour is not what it should be. Then there is the issue of whether the freeze the wings or not. A very specific issue, so I've been looking at the EXIF data of hummingbird pictures that I feel are very good to get a clue as to where I'm going wrong.
I also find it useful to look at the data for my own stuff just to try and work out where I went wrong (or right0 for a specific picture.