The Champagne shot

[sassan]

Originally Posted by Lello

sassan/Don
is it worth investing in a TTL flash unit or will what I have be alright to keep me going for a while.

My quick general purpose answer is "Surly yes".
I would say buy the flash synchronization cable no mater what.
Auto mode on these flashes take away a lot of time consume in calculations or trial and errors. But the best person to answer this is Master of light, Don.

I am not sure of exact compatibility but here is one example cable and flash:
L I N K O N E
L I N K T W O
The auction description indicate earlier modle Nikons, you may want to ask the seller about compatibality to D80.

[yelvertoft]

Originally Posted by Lello

Don
The Yinyan was sold as a flash unit for the FZ30 (because of the voltage output) so it must be at very most 24 volts. I will see if I can find the paperwork for the yinyan to see if the trigger voltage is mentioned

If you can get hold of a voltmeter, you can check it yourself by measuring across the contacts with the flash turned on. If you do this though, be very careful not to touch the contacts or the meter's probes whist connected. I gave up measuring my old Panasonic flashgun's trigger voltage once it went past 300V DC. I still use it with a remote slave trigger though.

[Don Hoey]

Lello,

Electronic flash is quite a large subject, but with the wide range of flash guns on the market both new and used it does help to understand a little of the development history.

MANUAL : The most basic units have only one output level and have a calculator that when ASA/ISO is dialed in, the appropriate f setting can be read off from the distance scale. Most units from the late 60's / early 70's are of this type.
AUTO : A development from the manual unit, in that greater control of exposure was available automatically, provided the subject was reasonably within the range of the auto setting chosen. Thyristors enabled very fast switching and by adding a sensor to the flash gun to read reflected light, the flash output could be quenched when exposure was deemed by the sensor to be correct. Far less accurate distance calculation was needed so this was a considerable advance on manual. You still needed to set ISO and read off the scale and set lens aperture though. Basic units had 1 auto setting and others like the Vivitar 283 had 4 auto settings.
TTL : With the advent of electronics in camera bodies camera manufacturers came up with TTL. In TTL a sensor in the camera body recorded correct exposure usually off the film and signalled for the flash to be quenched. This allowed for accurate exposure with extension tubes, filters etc and was more accurate than auto.
DEDICATED : Most camera manufacturers introduced dedicated units. These units were specific to certain camera's within the product range, and not suited to use on other manufacturers cameras. Units were generally TTL but not always. Lower end units retained a sensor on the flash. Dedicted flash overcame the problem of forgetting to set appropriate shutter speed in auto or program modes. Turn the flash on and the electronics recognised it and set sync speed.

By now anyone with a compact camera could be excused for laughing, and saying I just point and shoot no problem. How come SLRs can't.

Next stage of development is probably the result of manufacturers luring those same people into the purchase of SLR, lenses etc. Simple flash use for family snaps was an essential nut to be cracked. Advances in the electronics that could be built into cameras and lenses was the way forward.

I can now only speak of Nikon as I have no knowlege of other systems.

As part of its 3D matrix metering Nikon added distance communication between body and lens with the ' D ' series lenses. Introduced to go with the D1 series and D100 cameras Nikon brought out ' DTTL ' flash with two flash units SB50DX and SB80-DX. When you turn the flash on the camera recognises the flash unit and sets appropriate shutter speed, and passes back to the flash unit the camera ISO and lens distance setting. Zoom the lens and the flash unit automatically zooms in the case of SB80-DX. As the camera knows the subject distance and the flash output power in use, it selects the appropriate aperture. So now the SLR flash system as far as point, shoot, and forget has exceeded that of a compact camera due to the output power of flash units available.

Clever as it is, DTTL only survived for a couple of years, and was superceeded by the superior ITTL, and the SB80-DX and SB50-DX were replaced by the SB-800 and SB-600 respectively. At this point Nikon added wireless remote unit for macro to which SB-800 and/or SB600 can be added, with full automatic control of exposure as the wireless system communicates between the camera meter and the individual units in use.

All this modern kit is capable of an incredibly wide range of options/settings between press and forget, and manual. Instruction book for the SB80-DX is 105 pages and my Metz 45CTL if I could find it might run to 10 pages.

Now for the Nikon D80. Nikon system flash guns that will give ITTL ( the latest all singing and dancing totally auto control ) are SB-800 and SB-600. SB-600 has a lower guide number and a few limitations in modes other than ITTL.

Non ITTL on D80 but allowing more options : SB80-DX, SB-28DX, SB-28, SB-26, SB-25, SB-24
Fewer options than above : SB-30, SB22s, SB-22, SB-20, SB16B, SB15
Fewer options still : SB50-DX, SB-23, SB-29, SB21-B, SB-27, SB-29s

I have not mentioned the independant manufacturers units as I do not know where they sit in the hierarchy listed above.

As for remote lead, Foxy sent me a pic of his SC-28 to compare with my SC-17. The difference appears to be that the SC-28 has a locking pin when attached to the camera, and the lead exits to one side, whereas SC-17 has no lock and the lead exits from the front.

On the subject of trigger voltage there does not appear to be a specific max stated by Nikon, so I checked on Nikons own flash guns. From the SB-15 ( 1980's ) onwards all seem to 5V or less with one exception SB-50DX reaching 6V. Make your own mind up from this but it does suggest 6V is safe max.

Don

[Don Hoey]

Originally Posted by sassan

Don enjoy the show if you can.

Sassan,

This is a nature program with the most amazing photography. The dedication of the photographers to getting the images is incredible. So yes I did enjoy it very much.
A re-read of the above and I thought I needed more time to hopefully provide a more in depth answer to Lello, so waited for today.

Only hope it all makes sense.

Don

[Lello]

Don As you changed Foxy Bob's name, We might have to change your name to Lighting Don.
All this make so much more sense to me now, I had a rough idea what all the flash terms meant, But you've made it much easier for me to understand. It now means that the Yinyan flash I'm using now is probably no good for the
D80, (I will check the output Voltage) But I think it is higher than V,
Which is OK,When I get the D80 I will then be on the lookout for for a new flash gun/lead and as I'm not selling the FZ30 I can still keep the flash unit.
Thanks again Don for your help, (Out of curiosity I will let you know about the Yinyan Voltage)

[Don Hoey]

Originally Posted by Lello

Don As you changed Foxy Bob's name, We might have to change your name to Lighting Don.

Perhaps I should own up to having a crash read of SB80-DX manual the evening before Foxy came just in case of tricky questions on modes other than manual. In this case IN THE DARK Don.

Alway glad to be of help Lello. I was getting a bit worried by the length of the post as I typed it, so happy you found it useful.

Don

[Lello]

By the way Don any luck in finding out how the "Champagne shot" was done?
Are you still thinking about it or have you given up?

[Canis Vulpes]

This may be a little off topic but before my last visit to Don's I was settled with i-TTL but some of the more interesting features we have photographed require manual in some degree or other. The last two shoots I have done totally by manual flash, its was not difficult at all and I felt more in control of the lighting.

My vote for a name for Don is Flash Gordon, think of the theme to the 1980 film by Queen..."Flash arhah - saved every one of us"

[Lello]

Flash GorDON it is I take it It's more trial and error with manual flash? And can the SB-600 be set to manual?

[Don Hoey]

Originally Posted by Lello

By the way Don any luck in finding out how the "Champagne shot" was done?
Are you still thinking about it or have you given up?

Lello,

I have been diverted from my 110% attention by YOU

No I have not given up. Just have not got round to it.

Watch this S... P ... A ... C ... E

Don